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Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 554
# 191
11-10-2013, 05:38 AM
Not on topic (I know) but many of the Disenchanted are affected by this bug so here's something I've found to work... hope it helps.

After finishing the Sphere of Influence my toon reverted to the costume in slot 1 (I was wearing the one in slot 2 and had another in slot 3). I went to a tailor and could see my uniforms in slots 2 and 3 but they did not allow me to wear them.
Upon closer inspection I noticed the tailor told me I had 2 available costume slots (I only had the 3 free ones) despite seeing 2 and 3 "filled".

Here's what I did;
I clicked on slot 2's uniform and clicked CREATE. I didn't make any changes and then saved the "new" costume (which required NO changes) at a cost of 0 EC.
Same again for slot 3's uniform.
I now have working uniforms in slots 1,2 and 3 and "ghost" uniforms in slots 4&5 (which I cannot use and serve no purpose).
Hope the Disenchanted can make use of this until it gets fixed properly.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 617
# 192
11-10-2013, 09:06 AM
How about Cryptic axe the entire KDF faction and just make all klanks NPCs? Sounds like a wonderful idea for several reasons:

1. No more unwarranted persecution complex in STO's KDF playerbase.
2. Cryptic can jettison STO's most unprofitable faction. That is one of the main reasons why KDF doesn't get a lot of new content, right? Because it's not profitable? Get rid of it completely and focus efforts on Rom and Fed.
3. The Devs and GMs would have a much easier job dealing with the player community without a bunch of hostile, whining manchildren railing against the state of KDF in the game. This last reason might actually improve the psychological health of Cryptic/PWE employees, as I'm sure sorting through all these KDF whine threads can cause all sorts of headaches, eye strain.
4. No more stupid real-life discrimination analogies. As much as I love reading about KDF players talking about "being forced to the back of the bus" and so on, there really is absolutely no correlation between real-world civil rights movements and a bunch of pixelated virtual men in a game.


Cryptic, if you managed to get this far in the thread (I read the first page and skipped the next 19), you can thank me later.
Career Officer
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 120
# 193
11-10-2013, 09:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nabreeki View Post
How about Cryptic axe the entire KDF faction and just make all klanks NPCs? Sounds like a wonderful idea for several reasons:

1. No more unwarranted persecution complex in STO's KDF playerbase.
2. Cryptic can jettison STO's most unprofitable faction. That is one of the main reasons why KDF doesn't get a lot of new content, right? Because it's not profitable? Get rid of it completely and focus efforts on Rom and Fed.
3. The Devs and GMs would have a much easier job dealing with the player community without a bunch of hostile, whining manchildren railing against the state of KDF in the game. This last reason might actually improve the psychological health of Cryptic/PWE employees, as I'm sure sorting through all these KDF whine threads can cause all sorts of headaches, eye strain.
4. No more stupid real-life discrimination analogies. As much as I love reading about KDF players talking about "being forced to the back of the bus" and so on, there really is absolutely no correlation between real-world civil rights movements and a bunch of pixelated virtual men in a game.


Cryptic, if you managed to get this far in the thread (I read the first page and skipped the next 19), you can thank me later.
Obvious troll is obvious
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 617
# 194
11-10-2013, 10:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by garakfan84 View Post
Obvious troll is obvious
I am being completely serious, not trolling at all. The KDF playerbase is by far the spergiest group on this game, and I see no problem with doing away with the entire faction.

Let's look at JUST the first page of the Klingon Gameplay subforum and count the whiny "woe is KDF threads."

1. The "New" Disenchanted (a continuation from another KDF whine thread)
2. Possible future for Klingons
3. Tired of invalid uniforms
4. I'm spending money on KDF
5. Recount of KDF pop

I was thinking of including the "rejoice" thread on the list, because the OP lists all the KDF shortcomings, but it appears he is trying to make the best of it (or he is complaining in RP mode).

I'm sure the ROM forums are somewhat similar, but the KDF persecution complex is much more established. KDF is not profitable for Cryptic, they've said this. KDF players constantly whine to the devs about a fake alien in a GAME. As far as I see it, there's little reason for Cryptic to keep the faction running.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,494
# 195
11-10-2013, 12:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nabreeki View Post
I am being completely serious, not trolling at all. The KDF playerbase is by far the spergiest group on this game, and I see no problem with doing away with the entire faction.

Let's look at JUST the first page of the Klingon Gameplay subforum and count the whiny "woe is KDF threads."

1. The "New" Disenchanted (a continuation from another KDF whine thread)
2. Possible future for Klingons
3. Tired of invalid uniforms
4. I'm spending money on KDF
5. Recount of KDF pop

I was thinking of including the "rejoice" thread on the list, because the OP lists all the KDF shortcomings, but it appears he is trying to make the best of it (or he is complaining in RP mode).

I'm sure the ROM forums are somewhat similar, but the KDF persecution complex is much more established. KDF is not profitable for Cryptic, they've said this. KDF players constantly whine to the devs about a fake alien in a GAME. As far as I see it, there's little reason for Cryptic to keep the faction running.
Let's go ahead and examine your proposal for a moment...

I mean, seriously.

Okay, so instead of pretending they want to support a multifaction MMO (which was required by their contract when they got the license) they go ahead and make it something that the Development Staff is well adapted to supporting-a single faction game.

This would certainly be easier on Geko-he wouldn't have to make excuses...oh, wait...that's right...

The Federation forums.

People demanding stuff that Cryptic's already told them they can't have-for contractual reasons. CBS says no to a T5 Connie/Miranda for example.

The core problem in your proposal (because, let's look at this rationally now, would probably ease Cryptic's work load considerably) is that nasty ole' contract with CBS.

If they could've released without the Klingon faction, they would have some years ago, the reason it was released as the 'pvp' faction was to fill the contract and keep the license, tracking so far?


Now..."Profitability"...

When you don't bring things to market, you can't sell them for a profit. when the things you bring are distinctly inferior, you can't sell them for a profit.

The first part of that, is the relative emptiness of the KDF side of the C-store.

The Second part is demonstrated by the Bortasque three-pack. Distinctly, mechanically, inferior to the Odyssey it was cloned off of.

Matched by the Gorn sci ships-which are inferior to their blue-team counterparts.

And the costume options given-which are inferior (for quality reasons) to their fed counterparts (quality AND variety).


Inferior product doesn't get profitable unless you can sell a LOT of it.

We're not talking about physical goods in this marketplace-they generate a single file, store it, with an access point. The 'goods' are delivered electronically to the customer in exchange for real money.

Means an unlimited number of goods are available of any single type you have the file for-which in turn means you only have to account for storage costs (Server space) and your Internet Connection's traffic charges once you've paid your artists and programmers their monthly wage (or bi-weekly).


IOW no raw materials, no physical production per unit, negligible inventory costs.


Your only costs end up being promotion (which is handled in-house and doesn't extend to the rest of the ad budget), electronic storage of the original file, and the internet connection.


Now, there are probably processing fees on your payments, but it's likely NOT separate between Klingon and Federation content-i.e. mastercard doesn't ask me if I'm buying Klingon bits or Federation bits. It just asks me if I really want to buy Zen today, nd if I'm really ME.

so I have to ask: How badly does something in the C-store have to sell, NOT to be profitable over time?

Now, I can SEE how the Bort 3 pack wasn't profitable-it's taken a long time for there to be more than a tiny number of them visible anywhere in the game-but it was inferior to the Oddy during a time when Escorts were King and Turn-Rate Mattered for anything that wasn't a carrier.

it's a case of "Of course it didn't sell!" when it takes less work to make a free Vor'cha outperform it, players, (Esp. players that had to gruel through the "Klinks only get PvP" era) aren't going to drop down money on a ship that's worse than what they already have, and worse than the opposing faction. It's just common sense, there's only so far you can mistreat a customer base before they don't buy your stuff, no matter HOW captive the market IS.

In a Monopoly situation (and with the licensing being what it is for Star Trek in game form it is), you still have to look at 'what the market will BEAR', charge more than that, and the market will adapt and do without.

upshot being, that more than 1 in 6 (by Cryptic's own numbers) existing and potential customers mains or plays KDF as more than a contraband farmer. for those kind of numbers to be unprofitable takes mismanagement on an epic scale.
"when you're out of Birds of Prey, you're out of ships."
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 554
# 196
11-10-2013, 12:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nabreeki View Post
Let's look at JUST the first page of the Klingon Gameplay subforum and count the whiny "woe is KDF threads."

1. The "New" Disenchanted (a continuation from another KDF whine thread)
2. Possible future for Klingons
3. Tired of invalid uniforms
4. I'm spending money on KDF
5. Recount of KDF pop
And for the Federation we have...
1. The Next Big Update... (A complaint about how the fed tutorial and early missions are poor compared to the new Klingon and Romulan ones.)
2. No more Vice Admirals! (A complaint about the highest rank for feds being Vice Admiral when it should, in the thread creator's mind, be captain.)
3. Suggestion to improve Federation gameplay (Because it is only the feds who want gameplay improved... hmmm...)
4. in regards to dev blog 18 (A complaint that everyone's warp core room looks the same. Seriously? A room hardly anyone visits and that's what the complaint is about!)

As to your list let's see

1. The "New" Disenchanted (A polite way for KDF players to show solidarity without whining and moaning. We show a title in-game. The thread is open for discussion, but we try to keep things on topic and, above all, POLITE).
2. Possible future for the Klingons (A suggestion by a player to merge the KDF faction with the FEDs at lvl 50. Not a whinge thread at all. Not a good suggestion, IMO, but not a whiny start at all.)
3. Tired of invalid uniforms. (Romulans have a bigger issue with clipping that KDF have ever had but there is a thread in Gameplay Bugs where a bug has been causing KDF uniforms to disappear. Crupticfrost has passed it on so this should be fixed soon. I'll grant you, it's not productive but people are entitled to moan when things go wrong.)
4. I'm spending money on KDF (A relatively new player has a fed toon but prefers the KDF and Romulans and wants to spend money on KDF. Whining how exactly?)
5. Recount of KDF pop (Someone wants information on how many players make up the KDF now. This would seem to be a simple need to satisfy curiousity.)

I will suggest to every member of the Disenchanted that further replies to this particular individual will prove fruitless, and utterly without merit. Let's not derail our own thread further by feeding anyone exhibiting trollish behaviour.
Career Officer
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 181
# 197
11-10-2013, 01:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
Let's go ahead and examine your proposal for a moment...

I mean, seriously.

Okay, so instead of pretending they want to support a multifaction MMO (which was required by their contract when they got the license) they go ahead and make it something that the Development Staff is well adapted to supporting-a single faction game.

This would certainly be easier on Geko-he wouldn't have to make excuses...oh, wait...that's right...

The Federation forums.

People demanding stuff that Cryptic's already told them they can't have-for contractual reasons. CBS says no to a T5 Connie/Miranda for example.

The core problem in your proposal (because, let's look at this rationally now, would probably ease Cryptic's work load considerably) is that nasty ole' contract with CBS.

If they could've released without the Klingon faction, they would have some years ago, the reason it was released as the 'pvp' faction was to fill the contract and keep the license, tracking so far?


Now..."Profitability"...

When you don't bring things to market, you can't sell them for a profit. when the things you bring are distinctly inferior, you can't sell them for a profit.

The first part of that, is the relative emptiness of the KDF side of the C-store.

The Second part is demonstrated by the Bortasque three-pack. Distinctly, mechanically, inferior to the Odyssey it was cloned off of.

Matched by the Gorn sci ships-which are inferior to their blue-team counterparts.

And the costume options given-which are inferior (for quality reasons) to their fed counterparts (quality AND variety).


Inferior product doesn't get profitable unless you can sell a LOT of it.

We're not talking about physical goods in this marketplace-they generate a single file, store it, with an access point. The 'goods' are delivered electronically to the customer in exchange for real money.

Means an unlimited number of goods are available of any single type you have the file for-which in turn means you only have to account for storage costs (Server space) and your Internet Connection's traffic charges once you've paid your artists and programmers their monthly wage (or bi-weekly).


IOW no raw materials, no physical production per unit, negligible inventory costs.


Your only costs end up being promotion (which is handled in-house and doesn't extend to the rest of the ad budget), electronic storage of the original file, and the internet connection.


Now, there are probably processing fees on your payments, but it's likely NOT separate between Klingon and Federation content-i.e. mastercard doesn't ask me if I'm buying Klingon bits or Federation bits. It just asks me if I really want to buy Zen today, nd if I'm really ME.

so I have to ask: How badly does something in the C-store have to sell, NOT to be profitable over time?

Now, I can SEE how the Bort 3 pack wasn't profitable-it's taken a long time for there to be more than a tiny number of them visible anywhere in the game-but it was inferior to the Oddy during a time when Escorts were King and Turn-Rate Mattered for anything that wasn't a carrier.

it's a case of "Of course it didn't sell!" when it takes less work to make a free Vor'cha outperform it, players, (Esp. players that had to gruel through the "Klinks only get PvP" era) aren't going to drop down money on a ship that's worse than what they already have, and worse than the opposing faction. It's just common sense, there's only so far you can mistreat a customer base before they don't buy your stuff, no matter HOW captive the market IS.

In a Monopoly situation (and with the licensing being what it is for Star Trek in game form it is), you still have to look at 'what the market will BEAR', charge more than that, and the market will adapt and do without.

upshot being, that more than 1 in 6 (by Cryptic's own numbers) existing and potential customers mains or plays KDF as more than a contraband farmer. for those kind of numbers to be unprofitable takes mismanagement on an epic scale.
Well after viewing this post and and seeing the responses 196 out of 6700 or so views, klinks are about 3 percent of this game. Frankly, I concur there is no market unless Cryptic decides to either make the faction enticing enough to play. Granite I don't mind playing Klink as a break from Fed, but overall they do need some love.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,391
# 198
11-10-2013, 02:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by abfabfleet View Post
Well after viewing this post and and seeing the responses 196 out of 6700 or so views, klinks are about 3 percent of this game. Frankly, I concur there is no market unless Cryptic decides to either make the faction enticing enough to play. Granite I don't mind playing Klink as a break from Fed, but overall they do need some love.
Well seriously, of all the ways to do it you cannot really estimate a faction population based on forum posts, let alone the view/reply ratio of a single thread. If these estimates were true, then the game would be in serious problems with only some 2500 players.

Granted, the KDF population is far from the Fed. levels, but once 18% (according to dStahls infamous metric), now has actually grown since LoR (according to Cpt.Geko's latest interview), so I'd say at least 20%. Far from ideal, but in no case as grim as 3%.

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Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 995
# 199
11-10-2013, 02:35 PM
i would like my outfits slots sorting out kdf side (cos im sick of having to redo them every couple of months)
all so i would love a new tac ship for my klingon. + a new sci ship for my cat the kar'fi is ace but ive been using it for nearly 2 years now n am getting a bit bored of it, there is no sci ship kdf side that i wont the consoles are just not on par with my vesta.
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Say No to ARK
Career Officer
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 120
# 200
11-10-2013, 04:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nabreeki View Post
I am being completely serious, not trolling at all. The KDF playerbase is by far the spergiest group on this game, and I see no problem with doing away with the entire faction.

Let's look at JUST the first page of the Klingon Gameplay subforum and count the whiny "woe is KDF threads."

1. The "New" Disenchanted (a continuation from another KDF whine thread)
2. Possible future for Klingons
3. Tired of invalid uniforms
4. I'm spending money on KDF
5. Recount of KDF pop

I was thinking of including the "rejoice" thread on the list, because the OP lists all the KDF shortcomings, but it appears he is trying to make the best of it (or he is complaining in RP mode).

I'm sure the ROM forums are somewhat similar, but the KDF persecution complex is much more established. KDF is not profitable for Cryptic, they've said this. KDF players constantly whine to the devs about a fake alien in a GAME. As far as I see it, there's little reason for Cryptic to keep the faction running.
Well I said that because, really, the KDF faction exists. You do realize that it's not going to just go away right? How would that be any better? What would happen then? We'd all be Feds or Fed-allies? No thanks, I love having a choice and I chose KDF. Still do, despite all the "shinies" the others get.

I don't expect you to understand, I guess it's one of those things that, when you're passionate about something and keep seeing it being screwed over, you'd know. Granted we've come a long way and I believe we all appreciate the little things we get here and there but, it's still not on par with the Feds and even the Roms.
If we had something like LoR, maybe less, for the KDF that would be amazing. Also, I know a lot of people are just begging to have something to buy for the KDF. Costumes, Ships, ... and the list goes on.

(Not directed at your reply):
I'm not really against Feds or Roms but can we please just have something too?

Quote:
Originally Posted by drowrulesupreme View Post
I will suggest to every member of the Disenchanted that further replies to this particular individual will prove fruitless, and utterly without merit. Let's not derail our own thread further by feeding anyone exhibiting trollish behaviour.
Suggestion taken. This reply will be my last, there's really no point.

Last edited by garakfan84; 11-10-2013 at 04:43 PM.
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