Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 522
# 11
11-10-2013, 09:50 AM
Well when you break down a code of conduct, it boils down to these three issues -
1. Moral issues (eg, afk dilith farming)
2. Social/behavioral issues (eg, rage quitting/trash talking)
3. Knowledge issue (eg, what is cheese?)

Especially in light of how easy it has been to farm space STFs recently, the moral issue (afk farming) should not be a problem. Moreover, I have been told that there are 'channels' that are created to address this very issue. Maybe such people should be pointed towards those directions. They value efficiency, right?

Social/behavioral issues are something that can only be addressed with a positive peer pressure. No matter how much logical and well-reasoned argument or explanation, somebody who does not care about who you are, is obviously not going to listen to you. If somebody is your friend or is in your fleet, then it is your responsibility to guide them. If you are in this thread, giving it a read, you are probably the person who can be that positive peer pressure.

A lot of times, the social/behavioral issues stem directly from knowledge issue. Nobody likes to lose. Nobody likes to die. Everybody likes to think they are smart. And when they take a build, that according to them should perform very well in any condition, into pvp and they suddenly have a harsh cold reality thrown at their face, they might lash out due to frustration. Accusations of hacking and cheatings are thrown around, and when this does not satisfy, at the very least, the opposing guy is surely loaded with cheese. The only way to mitigate a knowledge issue is to actively help them understand why a cheese is a cheese. Sometimes you succeed, sometimes they rage on you and put you on ignore list. But at least you tried, right?
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,620
# 12
11-10-2013, 01:49 PM
i dont use what i consider cheese on people that i wouldn't like used on me, to try to deter its use. so far thats been completely unsuccessful.
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,294
# 13
11-11-2013, 06:12 AM
Said this many times.....

Anything goes in queues. Rightly or wrongly, it just is. If you want someone to blame, blame Cryptic. They have the power, not players to fix it.
Only takes 1 guy to break it and the Code falls apart. It also is one of the biggest sources of qq.

If it's a private match, that's where it matters. What ever you agree there is what defines your integrity.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,440
# 14
11-11-2013, 06:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by naz4 View Post
Anything goes in queues. Rightly or wrongly, it just is. If you want someone to blame, blame Cryptic. They have the power, not players to fix it.
Only takes 1 guy to break it and the Code falls apart. It also is one of the biggest sources of qq.
See, I just can't agree with that. Sure, if one person doesn't follow the code - it can ruin things for everybody else involved in the match, but it was still that player that made the decision to break it. Cryptic didn't make them break it. Folks need to take responsibility for their actions.

How many folks get in a car to drive somewhere every day?

How many folks decide to drive that car on the sidewalk?

Do you blame the car manufacturer if somebody drives on the sidewalk?

Just because players do not have the power to police the queues in the same manner in which a society can police sidewalks (ahem...hrmm...I need caffeine)...does that mean that folks should drive on the sidewalks in the queues willy nilly as if they've been robbed of any free will?

Given that the outcome of matches in the queues mean diddly squat...honestly, what's won or lost in such a match?...then who cares if a public queue match is lost because somebody or some group of folks decided to cheese things up? Is it better to end up being the guy that cheesed things up...? Cause that rep can develop as well - it's happening with a particular fleet out there (and it's getting tedious reading about it)...

...what rep is lost in losing to somebody using cheese, eh?
...what rep is lost by being the guy using the cheese, eh?

If one wants to consider what might be attached to gain/loss in public queues...

Meh, somebody said in a match the other day "nasty Tvaro" and it's been bugging the Hell out of me ever since. I didn't see the message in zone until coming back from a smoke. At first I was just curious what they meant, but with my PMs dorked again - I couldn't ask. By the time I remembered that my mails aren't dorked and I could ask that way, I'd forgotten the name of the person that said it to try to mail them.

Was it a complaint or a compliment? About the only thing that's ever been said about Willard the Rat is that he can be annoying, and I've joked that maybe I should have called him Willard the Gnat. Hell, the only comment/complaint I remember from almost two years of playing was pre-LoR when somebody complained that Geist was a Sci Spammer. Well, he was a Sci in a Hegh'ta with 4x Sci BOFFs...heh, so he was spamming Sci.

Meh, now I'm just rambling...
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,332
# 15
11-11-2013, 07:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
Meh, somebody said in a match the other day "nasty Tvaro" and it's been bugging the Hell out of me ever since. I didn't see the message in zone until coming back from a smoke. At first I was just curious what they meant, but with my PMs dorked again - I couldn't ask. By the time I remembered that my mails aren't dorked and I could ask that way, I'd forgotten the name of the person that said it to try to mail them.

Was it a complaint or a compliment? About the only thing that's ever been said about Willard the Rat is that he can be annoying, and I've joked that maybe I should have called him Willard the Gnat. Hell, the only comment/complaint I remember from almost two years of playing was pre-LoR when somebody complained that Geist was a Sci Spammer. Well, he was a Sci in a Hegh'ta with 4x Sci BOFFs...heh, so he was spamming Sci.

Meh, now I'm just rambling...
For situations like this, caring too much will make you go completely nuts. It's like that old story of the farmer and his son taking the donkey to market - everyone thinks a different thing. *Sighs* Better to just decide for yourself what you want to run, with some level of self-policing, and take everything else with a grain of salt. While some may rightly feel cheesed off, there are also those who are just sour grapes. In all honesty, if I listened to every complaint in match, I'd be piloting an Eng Star Cruiser with Aux to Damps and single cannons.

I do try to be considerate when I hear that someone isn't having fun, but I am only willing to bend so far before I say 'enough'.
Take it easy!

Ishmael@scurry5: A Nibbling Sci
"Squeak?"
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,757
# 16
11-11-2013, 07:10 AM
basil? Clove? pepper? nutmeg?
Roy Hatch (stryker) soldier, friend, and good man.
1945-2014
RIP
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,228
# 17
11-11-2013, 07:37 AM
I have not issues with anything except:

If there are people that you disagree with, or have a grudge with and intentional get your team to grief them = you need to ask yourself why you are playing.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 844
# 18
11-11-2013, 08:16 AM
yeah, if this goes off, I predict 1 thing will happen:

A person from a recognizable fleet will use something considered bad by this code of conduct. That entire fleet will be labeled as cheese-users/exploiters. QQ will ensue on forums and OPVP.

This is not conjecture, this is what happens. It has happened before and it will happen again... no matter how much we wish the opposite to be true.

edit: In fact, I believe I have posted something very similar to this in the past.
Quote:
ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ RIYOTT ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ: Have you wondered that maybe all the things they've added to the gaem lately is to literally make PvP unbearable? Because everything they've added has no use in PvE at all; we know the big boss hates 14 yo min maxers
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 351
# 19
11-11-2013, 08:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
See, I just can't agree with that. Sure, if one person doesn't follow the code - it can ruin things for everybody else involved in the match, but it was still that player that made the decision to break it. Cryptic didn't make them break it. Folks need to take responsibility for their actions.

How many folks get in a car to drive somewhere every day?

How many folks decide to drive that car on the sidewalk?

Do you blame the car manufacturer if somebody drives on the sidewalk?

Just because players do not have the power to police the queues in the same manner in which a society can police sidewalks (ahem...hrmm...I need caffeine)...does that mean that folks should drive on the sidewalks in the queues willy nilly as if they've been robbed of any free will?
The question is, how many people would drive on the sidewalk if they knew there was no police?

You are right, no one can blame his bad behavior on cryptic and everybody is responsible for his own actions. But without any consequences many people do not care. The pvp queues are how the world would look without law enforcement.

People are only nice if they want to be. That means some are, some are not. No thread in the forums will ever change that.
My stomach is clear and my mind is full of bacon!
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,247
# 20
11-11-2013, 08:39 AM
I agree with you OP. In fact, created a very similar post based acceptable equipment on what the last several tournaments allowed. It went, no where.

For what its worth, I follow the code that I posted. Which isn't far off from yours. That post got similar responses... to paraphrase "Good idea... but, won't work".

The thing is, it doesn't need everyone to make it work. It needs players to police themselves... and if a few bad apples don't... well, we know what type of player they are. What I read here is a lot of excuses why not to... not any are really valid.

I'd bet that a seasoned team of players who commit to these guidelines, would find they still win over the inexperienced with the questionable items.

But, I have come to learn and understand, that there is very little honor, and sportsmanship in PvP. Unfortunately.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------Star Trek Online, Now with out the Trek....
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