Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 266
# 171
11-11-2013, 12:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpalelena View Post
So it unbalances pvp? Now that seems like a more valid concern , though honestly I dont pvp at all.

They could fix that by simply reducing the effectiveness of certain things to players, like what they did with the breen ICE pulsewave.
that's one sentence in all that, the rest of it applies to pve

I don't use pvp to validate arguments currently since well its borked, out of balance already, im just pointing out that on top of all the things it does to pve, it also push's that more out of whack.
Captain
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,246
# 172
11-11-2013, 12:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by verline1 View Post
it throws the already out of whack pvp even more out of whack.

It makes nothing but damage done and dps matter in the case of dps creep, it removes the need for some cpatian types, powers.

you can also argue that it cheapens the gaming experience by removing any real challenge at all, and focusing it all on how much damage you can go. but you can "gear down" to get around that.

the biggest thing it does is slant teams game play, not pvp, towards whatever the creep is, or which every is largest. Like right now its slanted towards tac captains, in escorts, with 5 tac console slots, or the rommy dread, using DHC's. Why, because any other ship, captain, or set up you could use in pve right now would be sub par, it would work, but youd be done faster with just another tac cap in a ship tweaked out for max dps.

there is no need for tactics, no need for trinity, healers, tanks, when all targets can be melted before they become a problem. lump in that most stfs have time constraints, and you compound people wanting to be done fast, with a need to be fast.

in essence power creep pigeon holes much of the game play into one super effective type, and can make a lot of game play very trivial, unchallenging, unrewarding, and remove any need to aspire to more.

remember its not creep when game play also evolves to be harder, that's natural progression, but this is not that.

I get that people want to be done with things they have done 1000 times before as quickly as possible, but cheapen the experience, or trivialize it too much, and well, why play.
There is a lot more defense creep than damage creep in pvp

Its extremely rare to get nailed out 1v1 vs anything in short order. Only a dedicated vaper can do that, and not every time.

In premade matches it takes a full 3-4 man focus fire to pound down even a squishy who is being crosshealed ad nauseum
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Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 266
# 173
11-11-2013, 01:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rylanadionysis View Post
There is a lot more defense creep than damage creep in pvp

Its extremely rare to get nailed out 1v1 vs anything in short order. Only a dedicated vaper can do that, and not every time.

In premade matches it takes a full 3-4 man focus fire to pound down even a squishy who is being crosshealed ad nauseum
yhea but this still throws it even more out of joint, but pvp has been off balance for, well always.

even at launch it was out of whack, with sci locking everyone down for 45-60 secs at a time. then came the KDF carrier spam, the real deal, with clouds of pets, then perfect shield and hull res engis, and so on.

pvp is going to need to go through a serious hammering out, stuff like this just makes it worse, but oh well.

and on the pve side, well that was already easy, this just makes it more of a joke
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,166
# 174
11-12-2013, 01:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by verline1 View Post
yhea but this still throws it even more out of joint, but pvp has been off balance for, well always.

even at launch it was out of whack, with sci locking everyone down for 45-60 secs at a time. then came the KDF carrier spam, the real deal, with clouds of pets, then perfect shield and hull res engis, and so on.

pvp is going to need to go through a serious hammering out, stuff like this just makes it worse, but oh well.

and on the pve side, well that was already easy, this just makes it more of a joke
Actually, those were the times when Sci was useful in Pve.

It was not the tac power creep that did Sci in, it was the big pvp nerfbat they got hit with.
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 266
# 175
11-12-2013, 08:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpalelena View Post
Actually, those were the times when Sci was useful in Pve.

It was not the tac power creep that did Sci in, it was the big pvp nerfbat they got hit with.
I never said nor implied that sci was done in by anything other then being massively over powered at release, which it was, they went over board, but it needed a nerf at release.

You chose to say that I implied tac had anything to do with it, which I didn't.

Last edited by verline1; 11-12-2013 at 08:29 PM.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 339
# 176
11-17-2013, 04:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by reginamala78 View Post
Honestly the console-crafting thing is a side discussion anyways (fueled by envy apparently). Really who uses Purple12 for anything other than ego?
I have mostly XII purple stuff on my Deep Space Science Vessel and I can't even come close to dealing the amount of damage others can, especially those with better ships.

I keep reading about how XII equipment is just about ego, but actually it's about not being useless in STFs and causing optionals to fail.

Certainly, optimization can help to a point. However, when adding up all the small percentage improvements one can get to the point where there is a considerable difference in effectiveness.

The high EC Exchange console problem could have been dealt with differently, along with the problem crafters have of getting a good console so rarely. The crafting mission could have been less demanding in terms of the DOFFs needed and the chance of not getting green. In fact, green consoles could have been eliminated altogether from the job. The result would be a lot more blue and purple consoles and thus lower prices due to higher supply. More people could craft if the DOFF requirements weren't so steep, including silver players who haven't spent Zen to increase the EC cap. The NADORC mission could have a shorter cooldown, too.

People thumb their noses at the crafters, but it does take quite a bit of time/EC/effort to get decent consoles. I spent about 10 million buying resolve doffs with one extra trait (like stubborn) and I crafted six consoles before I gave up. Of those I got one purple console and it wasn't worth much at all. Crafting in STO is broken because it costs more to craft than one can get from selling the crafted stuff. The fleet gear makes the problem worse.
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