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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
The Stealth skill is one of the worst value skills in the entire game.

Just take a moment to compare what stealth grants (a tiny amount of stealth) vs. what the opposing skill (Starship Sensors) does:

> Increases Stealth Detection Rating (SDR).
> Increases the Stealth Sight portion of Sensor Scan.
> Increases the Stealth debuff of Sensor Scan on enemy targets.
> Increases the Stealth debuff from FOMM.
> Grants resistance vs. Scrambles/Jam Sensors/Placates (Roughly -50% duration for 9 ranks).


The cost to benefit ratio for these two technically opposing skills are way, way off.


Some suggestions:

1) The values should be adjusted to be a better defense vs. buffed SDR.
2) Ranks in Stealth should grant resistance to powers that debuff stealth (APB, APD, Sensor Scan, etc) similar to the scaling for PI, ID and SS (i.e. 50% at 9 ranks).


Last edited by ussultimatum; 11-18-2013 at 09:45 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,000
# 2
11-14-2013, 11:20 AM
Saw that coming a mile off lol.

You might also want to say mask energy signature needs a look at too with this. Right now that skill is used even less than photonics officer and most people don't even know it exists.
------
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.

Has damage got out of control?
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,797
# 3
11-14-2013, 11:24 AM
Lol, that one is like threat control. Even the wiki page says it's pure garbage:

http://sto.gamepedia.com/Skill:_Starship_Threat_Control
Commander
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 333
# 4
11-14-2013, 11:44 AM
Even on my characters that do use cloaking devices, I never pick up starship stealth. For pve, it isnt needed at all, the enemy will never see you regardless of how close you are.

Personally I think the starship stealth skill should have some additional effects - make your ship harder to hit (like an extra defense/maneuvers/evasion skill), increase the damage bonus and damage bonus duration when dropping out of stealth, and provide a damage resistance buff when entering/exiting stealth to counter the loss of shields.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,051
# 5
11-14-2013, 11:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpharma View Post
Saw that coming a mile off lol.

You might also want to say mask energy signature needs a look at too with this. Right now that skill is used even less than photonics officer and most people don't even know it exists.
Honestly, Mask Energy Signature needs to disable a player's weapons with a tradeoff allowing the ability to be activated in combat.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 14,463
# 6
11-14-2013, 12:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
2) Ranks in Stealth should grant resistance to powers that debuff stealth (APB, APD, Sensor Scan, etc) similar to the scaling for PI, ID and SS (i.e. 50% at 9 ranks).
That's a pretty nifty suggestion.
Captain
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,378
# 7
11-14-2013, 12:14 PM
I put points into sensors on my sci rom fedside. >_> if a kdf player gets within 12k of that toon cloaked, i see it, without even doing anything. Laughably bad when sensor scan is up, ive seen bops 31k away before. How is that possible?

a rom is a little trickier due to the boff trait they can get, but its still a very bad idea to get within 7-8k of that same toon, or under 10 when SS is up.

Everything is OP, plz nerf
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 8
11-14-2013, 12:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rylanadionysis View Post
I put points into sensors on my sci rom fedside. >_> if a kdf player gets within 12k of that toon cloaked, i see it, without even doing anything. Laughably bad when sensor scan is up, ive seen bops 31k away before. How is that possible?

a rom is a little trickier due to the boff trait they can get, but its still a very bad idea to get within 7-8k of that same toon, or under 10 when SS is up.


This pretty sums up what is wrong with the skill and the BOFFs.

It also highlights that you can make a dedicated snoop build that will effectively snoop out Roms, but that same build is so massively overpowered vs. KDF cloaks.

Which is a really unfair situation for BoPs.

Boosting the skill itself, which everyone has access to, and reducing outside sources could help normalize what is currently lopsided.

Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 14,463
# 9
11-14-2013, 03:31 PM
NOTE: The "you" used below is not directed at anybody in the thread...it's a generic "you" sort of thing.

Romulan Captain Romulan +150 Starship Stealth
Reman Captain Infiltrator +150 Starship Stealth
Nausicaan Captain Pirate* +150 Starship Stealth

Romulan/Reman BOFF Subterfuge +150 Starship Stealth
Reman BOFF Superior Infiltrator +200 Starship Stealth
Nausicaan BOFF Pirate +150 Starship Stealth

*The info still says +Perception, but even the S8 patch notes which state a fix for it list it as a +Stealth bonus and not a +Perception bonus. If you look at the Stats Space Skills though on a new toon, it shows +150 Starship Stealth.

The above are +Starship Stealth bonuses and not +Stealth Value bonuses. That means each is providing half the listed bonus to Stealth Value. That's based on a March 8th post from Bort, but those numbers don't quite seem to match up.

Base Stealth: 4925
50 Aux: 4975
Fresh Rom toon (+150 Starship Stealth): 5105 Stealth on Cloak

Expected Stealth on Cloak? 5050

There's +55 Stealth coming from somewhere...perhaps a bonus for a Rom ship? Meh, don't recall. But anyway...

I don't agree with how Cryptic has those stacking now. I definitely agree that you shouldn't have been able to have a Romulan/Reman Captain with 5x Sub/Sup Infil to get +1900 Starship Stealth (or +950 Stealth Value)...heh, that would be ridiculous.

However...the Captain Trait should stack with any BOFF Trait. If you've got the Captain, you should get that bonus regardless of what BOFFs you've got. The individual BOFF Traits should stack with different BOFF Traits. No, not 5x blahblahblah...but if you've got a Nausicaan and a Reman, then you should get the bonuses from them. Heck, with the way things changed - does the Sub & Sup Infil even stack? I no longer have any Reman BOFFs...since my Captain's a Reman. Guess I could roll an Alien Rom and mail them a Reman to look...meh, but anyway...

Captain +150 Starship Stealth
Reman BOFF +350 Starship Stealth (Sub/Sup Infil)
Nausicaan BOFF +150 Starship Stealth

That would be +650 Starship Stealth or +325 Stealth Value. Added to the base of 4975 (@50 Aux), you'd be looking at 5300 Stealth Value.

Base Perception is 5000. So folks would jump in - oh Hell no! Even going with Base Perception at 50 Aux on a Sci...you're looking at 5030 Perception. @125 Aux on a Sci, you're looking at 5075 Perception. You're still in the hole for 225 Perception to see them at 0km.

What have you done though? They've selected a Faction and Species for the Captain. They've slotted three specific BOFFs. On top of that, at 5 pips of Singularity Charge they're looking at -400 Stealth Value. Yeah, Stealth Value...so that 5300 guy is at 4900 now and you can see him at over 3km without doing anything.

So grab a Deflector, have a Sci with Sensor Scan, grab EPtA, grab TDF or TDG...etc, etc, etc. It should take some effort...like it takes them some effort - there should be investment and a reasonable expectation of a return on it.

Which gets back to the Starship Stealth vs. Starship Sensors...outside of what's been mentioned, there's this:

9 Starship Stealth...99 Starship Stealth is +49.5 Stealth Value.
9 Starship Sensors...99 Starship Sensors is:
@50 Aux (non-Sci Vessel) +19.9 Perception
@125 Aux (non-Sci Vessel) +49.75 Perception
@50 Aux (Sci Vessel) +59.7 Perception
@125 Aux (Sci Vessel) +149.25 Perception

So even putting the other stuff aside, how is it fair to ask the person to invest in Stealth in the same manner as the person does Sensors?

Too many non-Sci Captains in non-Sci Vessels complained that they couldn't see everything without putting in any damn effort...and per the usual...Cryptic listened to those not wishing to put any effort in.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,000
# 10
11-14-2013, 04:19 PM
To be honest I don't see why they stopped subterfuge stacking when they said every boff ability should stack. Seems silly to me.

Why not simply nerf the bonus boffs (subterfuge) gave by half, thus giving you 50-75 stealth value per boff which is what? 0.5-0.75km closer per boff? Seems like a reasonable trade off for having it stack sliightly higher but not OP.

Then stick the amount of stealth given by the skill that you put points in as being +200 with 9 points, in other words doubling the stealth value given by the stealth skill (you can even do a stealth update of it) thus making it more relevant.

Still MES needs a buff, unfortunately with all these boffs my romulan could use it like a cloak and get good use out of it but would never need to, while my fed sci can't get good use out of it but could really do with it for getting out of a heated situation.

Perhaps boosting Mask Energy Signicture might be an idea?
MES1 4800
MES2 4900
MES3 5000
------
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.

Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
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