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Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,824
This is related to why does it seem sci heals mostly out heal eng heals? Is it not the primary job of an engineer to maintain the ship and, not the science officer's to do so also? While engineering skills are very effective, they should be the sole boff's to inact repairs to the ship and not a science officer butting in on their job.

The primary skills I will present all do a good job at what they do but, the splitting of them between two classes seems odd.

Engineering
Reverse shield polarity: The greatest shield healing skill in your possible arsenal.

Extend shields: Great for someone else but, limited range and depends on your own shield strength for effectiveness.

Emergency power to shields: Good instant shield heal with a boost to shldpwr.

Engineering team: Great instant hull heal with and odd fix to eng debuffs (will get to this later) and, a boost to eng skills.

Auxiliary to structural: Good heal depending on auxpwr and, medium damage resistance with a quick cd.

Science
Hazard emitters: Large hull heal over time, small damage resistance and hazard cleanse.

Transfer shield strength: Large shield heal over time with a small damage resistance.

Science team: Great instant shield heal with a boost to sci skills and, fixes sci debuffs.

Ok now while sci skills are reliant more so on auxpwr vs eng skills, even at a moderate 50auxpwr they most often out heal eng at the same skill #1,2,3.

Granted eng skills are instant on yourself vs 2 of 3 sci skills over time but, clearly produce smaller healing in a single use.

Now for the oddball question as to what are eng debuffs? Well I suppose aceton beam would come to mind, boarding party I am guessing here (cleared by tac team I believe), subsystem offline, directed energy modulation (of course I think this is more of a buff to its user than a debuff so, probably not effected), eject warp plasma (cured with hazard emitters, not sure on its movement debuff). So all in all how often are you/we ever hit with what is/or could be defined as a eng debuff vs a sci debuff? Probably not nearly as often as a sci debuff so, it's useful but also a tiny bit redundant.

Now mind you this is all just an opinion about everything but, to me it would seem the shield and hull heals sci uses should be eng skills and, aceton beam, directed energy modulation and extend shlelds or reverse shield polarity would be more fitted towards science. But than again anything pertaining to shields and weapons systems still seem more geared towards engineering so, maybe just aceton for science with two new skills to aid in their abilities is needed!

This isn't really a complaint as, it is more of a why 2 completely different fields of expertise is competing for ship repair and maintenance, when each field should do one job that would be more logical to its expertise would suggest it should. I am not against a change towards making eng a dedicated repair specialist, while sci is a debuff expert with the addition of some new skills to replace those moved to eng.
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Last edited by shadowwraith77; 12-12-2013 at 05:15 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,000
# 2
12-12-2013, 05:20 PM
To be honest I just think some things need moving by what cleanses it so engineering team cleanses more stuff and HE is not the go to clear all it is.

As for heals...well that's a tricky one, do you compare them at equal levels of skill or what you can fit on a ship? Did you factor in cool downs and power levels etc?

One thing I can say about TSS and HE is that their self and same copy cool down is 45s and 30s respectively which is quite a long time and they heal over was it 10 or 15s? Where as aux to SIF is extremely spammable, 15s on self and 10s on shared. This allows for less over healing and healing when needed not waiting around on cool downs.

Another thing you're perhaps not giving as much credit to is EptS. It gives a boost to power but also a boost to resistance. EptS3 on its own can give you stupidly high shield resistance over 50% in most cases. It will also give you quite a big heal when you use it and then multiply your shields by the resistance x4 if you distribute. There are times when if you increase your resistance and continue to manually distribute you can even forgo using tactical team to distribute at a decent rate.

VD made a post a long time ago comparing engineering heals to science heals, think it was only heals you can share but they were about even with engineering providing more options for self healing on top and damage reduction.
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It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.

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Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,824
# 3
12-12-2013, 08:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpharma View Post
To be honest I just think some things need moving by what cleanses it so engineering team cleanses more stuff and HE is not the go to clear all it is.

As for heals...well that's a tricky one, do you compare them at equal levels of skill or what you can fit on a ship? Did you factor in cool downs and power levels etc?

One thing I can say about TSS and HE is that their self and same copy cool down is 45s and 30s respectively which is quite a long time and they heal over was it 10 or 15s? Where as aux to SIF is extremely spammable, 15s on self and 10s on shared. This allows for less over healing and healing when needed not waiting around on cool downs.

Another thing you're perhaps not giving as much credit to is EptS. It gives a boost to power but also a boost to resistance. EptS3 on its own can give you stupidly high shield resistance over 50% in most cases. It will also give you quite a big heal when you use it and then multiply your shields by the resistance x4 if you distribute. There are times when if you increase your resistance and continue to manually distribute you can even forgo using tactical team to distribute at a decent rate.

VD made a post a long time ago comparing engineering heals to science heals, think it was only heals you can share but they were about even with engineering providing more options for self healing on top and damage reduction.
It all sounds well and fine but, the point is the need for two career types for healing is not necessary. The same goes for so many ship's reliance on lt. sci slots as the norm and, not so many ships with cmdr. eng. If they left the major job of ship heals to eng alone than this would create a better diversity for eng boff's freeing up the reliance on the over use of lt. sci slots and, at the same time give some more creativity into possibly new sci skills since the 3 main they have would become eng skills. Just some thought in the canon perspective despite this being game mechanics mentality.
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If you have come to the forums, to complain about the AFK penalty, than it is WAI.
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Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,000
# 4
12-13-2013, 02:52 AM
I guess but then I can see why they have heals in science and engineering, it's so that you can actually have decent amounts of heals/resists on your weaker ships to help them survive a little longer or heal up when out of battle.

If you made engineering all about the heals though you would then literally be forcing ships into the trinity and to be honest that isn't what they designed it to do from the looks of things. The main problem with having heals in science is that as you say it makes you reliant on slotting them taking up valuable space on ships that do use science.

However I think the real problem is that even if you could give yourself god mode and slot offensive science abilities there they would be so lack lustre that they wouldn't make much of a difference. This is one of the things a lot of people, not meaning you btw, don't get about fast cycling abilities vs bigger longer cd abilities.

A fast cycling ability has more efficiency, you get less overkill and it can be applied to multiple enemies in the same time a bigger stronger (or weaker in many science abilities case) ability can be used. The point is rendered moot on big enemies like a mini boss or a boss but against the hordes of spam the bigger longer cd abilities are just plain rubbish.

So er...bit off topic lol. Still there is merit to making people use the science slot of science abilities even if it is only jam sensors etc. Course the abilities themselves would be revealed as being as weak as they are.
------
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.

Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,824
# 5
12-13-2013, 05:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpharma View Post
I guess but then I can see why they have heals in science and engineering, it's so that you can actually have decent amounts of heals/resists on your weaker ships to help them survive a little longer or heal up when out of battle.

If you made engineering all about the heals though you would then literally be forcing ships into the trinity and to be honest that isn't what they designed it to do from the looks of things. The main problem with having heals in science is that as you say it makes you reliant on slotting them taking up valuable space on ships that do use science.

However I think the real problem is that even if you could give yourself god mode and slot offensive science abilities there they would be so lack lustre that they wouldn't make much of a difference. This is one of the things a lot of people, not meaning you btw, don't get about fast cycling abilities vs bigger longer cd abilities.

A fast cycling ability has more efficiency, you get less overkill and it can be applied to multiple enemies in the same time a bigger stronger (or weaker in many science abilities case) ability can be used. The point is rendered moot on big enemies like a mini boss or a boss but against the hordes of spam the bigger longer cd abilities are just plain rubbish.

So er...bit off topic lol. Still there is merit to making people use the science slot of science abilities even if it is only jam sensors etc. Course the abilities themselves would be revealed as being as weak as they are.
Basically what I am getting at is a good majority of ships have to sacrifice between tac and eng slot while the lt. sci remains the norm. This causes to much reliance on tac ships to depend on sci for the extra needed heals instead of their tac sci skills, same for heavy eng ships have some capacity for for sci tac skills but, remain tac limited even though they are called a tactical ship. If more effort was put into carrying sci heals over to eng only this would create more choices in your ship layouts instead of being forced into a specific ship class. As it stands now they are pretty much limiting eng and tac choices because they reuse the same constant for sci on a good majority of cruisers and escorts. Some people may not want a lt. sci in favor of 1 degree higher eng or tac on their ships but, are instead forced to take the lt. sci when it really may not be needed or wanted and, cannot make use of sci tac skills because what few eng skills they can use are not sufficient enough again forcing you to rely on sci to back eng up. It seems redundant for a sci officer clearly from a canon point of view to be burdened in aiding an eng to maintain a ship. It would be like Scotty asking Spock to get off his rump and, repair the shield systems or suit up and star patching holes in the ship. While yes he could perform some of the simpler repairs just like any good crew member can or, be quickly taught to do but, for them in game to say he is pretty much on par with Scotty as far as ship repairs wouldn't seem by his own words LOGICAL.
[Combat (Self)] Your Lunge deals 3252 (1916) Physical Damage(Critical) to Heavy Tactical Drone.
If you have come to the forums, to complain about the AFK penalty, than it is WAI.
MACO/OMEGA/KHG Accolade Bug Link
Praetor of The Romulan Tal Shiar fleet

Last edited by shadowwraith77; 12-13-2013 at 12:04 PM.
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