Star Trek Online Fire at Will (Faw) not critting *fixed in 1/30 patch*
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Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 418
# 251
01-09-2014, 06:51 PM
The only hard part about coding FAW was the energy drain. Mainly because you're shooting more times per second. Especially with multiple targets. And the selection of multiple targets would be a bit difficult as well.

The possibility of hitting a target is basic math and it uses a 0-99 roll system. It gets your to hit %. This starts with a base hit % which we're lead to believe is 95% as shown under ship/attack/accuracy. You then add up all your accuracy from shipattack/accuracy+weapons+consoles+etc. You then get the targets defense. Then you get the difference of acc/def. Then do if diff<0, 1/(1-Diff), if diff>0, 2-(1/(1+Diff)). This is then added and or subtracted to the 95% chance to hit. If you have an 80% chance to hit you need to roll 20-99 to hit. If you roll below 20 you miss. Now this is a 2 roll system in that the 2nd roll would determine if you crit or not. However a 1 roll system is close to the same except if you had a 20% chance to crit it would be 80-99=crit, 20-79=hit, 0-19=miss.

For figuring out crit hit % you add up ship/attack/chance to crit/energy weapon spec/weapons/etc. You then get the difference of accuracy/defense. Then do if diff>0, diff*.125. Same applies to Crit severity except it uses if diff>0, diff*.5

There really isn't to much difference between how to code to determine a hit, crit, crit severity, etc etc between abilities. It's all just basic math and extremely basic programming. Except for the drain and faw's multiple targeting which can and will complicate it a bit. But the basics should still be in place.

So i'm just a bit stumped as to why this appears to be so difficult. Yes there's more to it then I described. Your power level, Targets range, Targets resistance, etc, etc. But the basics ie chance to crit aren't even working. If it needs to be recoded that's fine. It still shouldn't take much time or effort. Some people seem to think this is overly complicated. I tend to strongly disagree. Nothing is hard if you put your mind to it.

And this is not a complaint as I applaud the honesty of Branflakes post letting us know what's going on. And I agree 100% with fixing it for real this time. But like others I use FAW. I been using an aux2bat build for about a year now. I don't enjoy playing science and I don't like the limited arc of a DHC build. Beam Arrays are the only thing I enjoy. Love that broadsiding like a ship at sea. I don't need to do 20k+ dps. I just need FAW to work correctly so I can enjoy the game. So of course I want it fixed asap. But I can be a little patient. Especially if it's fixed correctly this time. But being patient to me doesn't mean waiting a month. So get her done, please.

Last edited by dragonsbite; 01-09-2014 at 07:09 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,043
# 252
01-09-2014, 07:11 PM
Quote:
 Originally Posted by dragonsbite So i'm just a bit stumped as to why this appears to be so difficult. Yes there's more to it then I described. But the basics ie chance to crit aren't even working. If it needs to be recoded that's fine. It still shouldn't take much time or effort. Some people seem to think this is overly complicated. I tend to strongly disagree. Nothing is hard if you put your mind to it.
The thing about FAW is that it's multi-targeting works on the basis of sending messages out to potential targets and waiting for a "Shoot me" response, then it locks targets and fires, rinse and repeat, This to the proc system was counting as two attacks, hence double proc-ing, if they were to consolidate these processes into one process that would likely fix the issue but that involves new suedo-code and ultimately new code, which takes a while to build and test
Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 418
# 253
01-09-2014, 08:22 PM
Quote:
 Originally Posted by adamkafei The thing about FAW is that it's multi-targeting works on the basis of sending messages out to potential targets and waiting for a "Shoot me" response, then it locks targets and fires, rinse and repeat, This to the proc system was counting as two attacks, hence double proc-ing, if they were to consolidate these processes into one process that would likely fix the issue but that involves new suedo-code and ultimately new code, which takes a while to build and test
I don't believe for a second that it sends out a message to potential targets and waits for a "shoot me now" response. No game that I know of programs anything like this and therefore this game wouldn't either. That makes absolutely no sense at all.

FAW if I was programming it would first find potential targets that were in range and within it's arc. Then I would have it do it's thing, ie fire at the target. And i'd be using "While" and not "GoTo" statements. The only complication would be which targets FAW selects. If you had 8 targets within the arc of your front beams and 3 targets within range of the rear beams. For the rear ones if like me you only have 3 in the rear then you know which targets get hit. For the front 7 targets is just picks them at random with a random number generator. Or perhaps it picks near to far. It could be done either way. Well except for the target you actually have selected that is as that will always get hit. It then fires at those targets until the cycle is complete. After cycle completion it repeats. Now it is possible that after it selects the targets that it then gets your accuracy/targets def/range/weapon power, targets resistance, etc etc. And as depending on which FAW you use ie 1, 2, or 3 it would increase it's damage. But this code would be the same as autofiring for determining hit, crit H, Crit D damage except for the added damage and cycle times.

I still don't know if there was ever a double proc problem either. Although there could have been. I did see double procs but not the way you think. It merely looked like a double proc. ie combat logged looked like this.

plasma beam fire at will II crits for xxxx
DEM hits for xxx
DEM hits for xxx

This was a combat log issue and or it takes time to register a hit based on distance. During the time of the so called double procs my combat log looked like this.

DEM III hits for xxxx
plasma beam fire at will II crits for xxxx
plasma beam fire at will II hits for xxxx
Cutting beam hits for xxx
plasma beam fire at will II crits for xxxx
plasma beam fire at will II hits for xxxx
plasma beam fire at will II hits for xxxx
plasma beam fire at will II crits for xxxx
DEM III hits for xxx
DEM III hits for xxx
plasma beam fire at will II hits for xxxx
DEM III crits for xxxx
DEM III hits for xxxx

Notice there were 7 fire at will hits without DEM between them. You then see a double proc to make up for it. Then a FAW hit then another double proc, etc, etc. However in the end it worked out to the correct amount of actual procs. At least for me when I tested this with rom plasma weapons using FAW II and DEM III. And again maybe there was a real double proc problem. I'm just saying that in my tests they were all as shown above.

Oh heck, wasting to much time on this. Sherlock Holmes (Brit version) on in a bit and I still have a BBQ to do. Broken FAW just can't compete with that. ~

Last edited by dragonsbite; 01-09-2014 at 08:28 PM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 205
# 254
01-09-2014, 09:28 PM
FaW adds absolutely no value to this game what so ever. Keep it in its current state, non critting. Without Crits its still more powerful then Cannon Scatter Volley.

lol.
Read the book of the Rihannsu.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 601
# 255
01-09-2014, 10:09 PM
Quote:
 Originally Posted by mightylepton FaW adds absolutely no value to this game what so ever. Keep it in its current state, non critting. Without Crits its still more powerful then Cannon Scatter Volley. lol.
Cannon rapid fire and beam overload adds nothing to the game, atleast for me, please break it so it doesn't crit.
Fed Fleet: Kodiak Legion (Tier 5 Lvl 20) | KDF Fleet: Imperial Legion (Tier 5 Lvl 20)
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,043
# 256
01-10-2014, 05:24 AM
Quote:
 Originally Posted by dragonsbite I don't believe for a second that it sends out a message to potential targets and waits for a "shoot me now" response. No game that I know of programs anything like this and therefore this game wouldn't either. That makes absolutely no sense at all.
I have a quote for you...

Quote:
 Originally Posted by borticuscryptic It stems from this power's structure. It is not something simple like: "I shoot these 2 guys." Instead it's built as: "I will find up to 2 targets within my firing arc, and send them a message. They will send back a message telling me to shoot them." It's built in this manner in order for us to be able to do point-to-point beam FX to multiple targets with a single power activation pulse. We've toyed with rebuilding it, but it never feels as responsive and intuitive as the current structure.
You may not believe it but it doesn't make it wrong
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 36
# 257
01-10-2014, 11:18 AM
Quote:
 Originally Posted by adamkafei The difference here is that FAW involves coding, the UI just involved swapping out one set of assets for another.
Er... no. The UI is completely different from the old one. It might look like an asset swap, but it's pretty obvious from the enhancements that it's a complete re-implementation (and if it wasn't LoR dev blog #8 specifically says they reimplemented the UI).
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 697
# 258
01-10-2014, 04:06 PM
Quote:
 Originally Posted by aloishammer So based on various other issues and how they've been handled, we can reasonably expect a tentative fix early in 2015? -facepalm- Back to watching the forums to see when to bother playing again. (Hopefully before ARC becomes mandatory and makes it a complete non-issue...but I've learned not to hold my breath.)
I wonder IF Cryptic knew they broke this would it of been another silent nerf/tooltip change?
Ensign
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 27
# 259 progress on FAW crit fix?
01-15-2014, 05:42 PM
Any progress on this? The thread has been quiet for almost a week. There is a patch tonight but the patch release notes still only list the FAW crit issue as a "known" issue.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 223
# 260
01-15-2014, 10:54 PM
None at all. Don't expect a fix.

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