Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 387
# 71
01-24-2014, 09:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by commodoreshrvk View Post
Obtaining multiple sets of gear benefits their ideas of the grindy game. Not necessarily the player. There THEY missed an opportunity to leverage their OWN vision of how the game should be played.
Then why exactly are you insisting that it has to be fixed before this goes live? Obviously it wasn't a priority for them, perhaps you are confusing their "vision" of how we should be playing for how you play - nobody I play with bothers to get multiple sets of space gear, they just get one and move it to whatever ship they are using when they want to use it. To do otherwise is a waste of time, and, more importantly, precious inventory slots.

Quote:
Originally Posted by commodoreshrvk View Post
Where has it been said it will be addressed? By addressed does it mean the items will stay with the loadout? If so, then yes this system becomes immensely useful. If not, you are still hauling your items around in your inventory like you are now and only have an automated "load" items ability. This is regardless of whether you are a solo player or a group player, a PvPer or a PvEer so I am not sure why you make the distinction.
And where is your assumption that they will NOT listen to the feedback being overwhelmingly stated in this thread coming from? You are simply fear mongering (DOOOOOOM!); there has been no mention either way, because it's been two days. Believe it or not, Cryptic is interested in making sure that the game is playable in the way we want to play it, not purposefully going around to piss players off. They didn't spend hundreds of man-hours developing a system that has been frequently requested for 4 years so that nobody will use it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by commodoreshrvk View Post
The programming in a vacuum is in reference to how it has been designed with some big flaws that impact the player even more than if the system is not there. What most players HAVE asked for is to have expertise swapping for PvP and PvE, expertise loadouts. I am regularly rooting around in the forums and have not seen players asking for a ship by ship system. Indeed they may have, but I am sure it did not involve filling up your inventory.
See above. You are basing all of this on the assumption that this is how the system is going to go live. We are here in this thread to tell the devs what we feel is not working in the current build. To constantly prophesize doom in the test forums is not helpful and in fact is harmful to the game. Give good feedback, with good reasons, and leave it at that - there's no need to go around spouting all this anti-Cryptic rhetoric.

Quote:
Originally Posted by commodoreshrvk View Post
Now, rather than running around, call the trade freighter...oh wait that has a 30 min cooldown that does not tick down when you are offline... Why we have to fly to specific places to access our banks is pretty archaic for MMOs nowadays. Heck, even in STO we have ships now that will let us do it from the bridge. Now you can swap to that ship, port to your bridge and load and unload, swamp back. The ship swapping is the better of the deal.
I will admit I have not been as active in multiple MMOs as of the last year or so, but I can't think of a single one that I do play where you don't have to go to a location to access your bank storage. If you can access it anywhere, it's not bank storage, it's inventory. STO is actually pretty generous in this regard, allowing you to get the trade freighter item for free, letting you use other people's trade freighters (the 30 minute timer isn't bad when you are in a group and can stagger usage), and letting you get to the account back from any bridge.
So, I am sitting alongside a Caitian Atrox Carrier at Earth Spacedock, and I think to myself "Man, that ship has a lot of windows".

Then it occurs to me that it makes a lot of sense, because cats love to sit in windows.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,984
# 72
01-24-2014, 10:30 AM
The only thing I will say on the new ship loadout system, is that it is inefficient if you have ships with different gear.
Dumping the current gear into inventory when choosing a new loadout, needs to change. What it should do is move the gear currently on a ship to another you own.
Like a lot of people, I have multiple different sets on my other ships, not even mentioning the different weapon types etc I have....

My Chars = 1 Main (Fed Eng) & 5 Mules for fun.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kitsune424 View Post
Here is your ticket to the USS Stupidity, Third class, four tacks on the chair, rules state you MUST sit on the chair, no standing, or hovering above the tacks, thank you have a nice day
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,550
# 73
01-24-2014, 11:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunfrancks View Post
Dumping the current gear into inventory when choosing a new loadout, needs to change.
Dumping into inventory is insane on the face of it, if you really think about it. For one, who has 20 open inventory slots?! Not me. And unless your other loadout is *exactly* the same as your current one (sort of defeats the purpose of switching, LOL), changing loadouts means your inventory will only grow -- and you didn't even have enough room in it to begin with.

In fine Cryptic tradition, I'm sure our feedback will all get ignored. But in case any devs happens to read, *please* re-consider this poor implementation of the loadout system.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 38
# 74
01-24-2014, 01:03 PM
Any new news on BFAW?
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 682
# 75
01-24-2014, 07:32 PM
While this is not a true solution, as it does not address the issue of inadequate inventory space. I would like to suggest that if the current implementation of inventory swapping goes ahead, at least some frustration could still be avoided.

Right now when we open up an NPC Vender we have three tabs. 'Buy', 'Sell' and 'Buyback'. Lets add a new tab. 'Sell bound'. Then add a filter to the 'Sell' tab so that it only displays items that have not yet been bound to character.

Finally add an option to the context sensitive menu when we right click an item in our inventory; 'Bind to character'. This is necessary as some items do not normally bind, but we may wish to avoid selling them. Party Poppers being one example.

Now to complete the system have the inventory sort button prioritize bound items over unbound. That way the junk we pick up and may wish to sell gets put at the bottom and items that load out switching dumps into our inventory and may need putting back in our bank will be towards the top.



I still do not want items going into my inventory when I change load outs. My character is too well established, with too many things and too many ships. However I appreciate that swapping items into slots on other ships, while preferable for ease of storage, does present problems.

If I have dual cannons in my load out and want to swap them for arrays on a federation cruiser the system lacks a slot to accommodate those cannons. We have similar problems when swapping out unique consoles.

For this reason I see pulling the slots off of our ships and combining them into a ship inventory space as the best solution. Replacing the inventory slots with 'link' slots to link to the items in the inventory.



Still while my solution might seem relatively simple to code it may be completely incompatible with the existing system and I will take the load out system cryptic give us and appreciate it as best I can.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 255
# 76
01-25-2014, 12:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eradicator84 View Post
We need a delete loadout option. Non C-store ships cannot be dismissed willy nilly or at all really as either it'll cost a bomb to get another or you literally cannot get it anymore. Simply give us the option to delete the loadout and slot from a ship and return it to our loadout 'pool' of slots.



To those talking about storing equipment IN the loadout, it's just the wrong way to solve the problem.
Sure it may promote grinding more rep gear but what about lockbox and lobi consoles/gear? They're rare and expensive to buy. You might only own one of some type of console. If everything is stored IN the loadout slot, how do you save that one unique item across multiple loadouts?
Then there'd be the extra database size needed to cope with such a thing. Not good.

This man has the answer:

You beat me to suggesting this
Definitely do this.
I disagree about 'shared bank' (account wide bank), that shouldn't be an option as bound gear cannot go there.

Once loadouts are in the game, it literally wont matter what randomly gets put on your other inactive ships, you just load a setup and it's all fine again.

Currently equipped gear should either:
GO INTO OTHER INACTIVE SHIP GEAR SLOTS

OR

SWITCH PLACES WITH THE ITEM BEING EQUIPPED


Either will solve the inventory problem nicely


also
Along with other ships, inventory and bank, can we PLEASE have quick equip be able to pull from the C-store? So we can grab C-store ship special consoles without having to commission/decommission them?
This can free up more space as we can get rid of items we're not using but still keep all ship slots full.
The idea with saving the items in the loadout is that it could just pull the item from a different loadout if it needed it. Although I guess it would end up looking similar to an "equiped gear" tab on the inside that would just pull what it needs from the pool of items you have in your layouts.

A lot of people bemoan the need to delete ships in order to get loadout slots back but they seem to be missing the fact that ALL SHIPS WILL COME WITH TWO LOADOUT SLOTS. You only need to buy slots if you are going to be using more then TWO loadouts on a ship and you would only need to delete a ship to recover a loadout slot if it had more then 3 in use and you were desperate for a 3rd+ loadout slot on another ship and did not want to pay for another pack of them.

From the noteds:

New Features:[*]Loadouts: Switch builds with just a couple clicks!
  • Open your ship's status window and click Manage Loadouts to create a new one. Each ship has 2 free loadouts and a maximum of 32.
    • Additional loadout slots can be purchased in the C-Store in sets of 10. Use them in any order on any number of ships, and discharge a ship to have the slots refunded to you.
  • Loadouts save all of your ship's current equipment and bridge officer stations.
  • Loadouts pull your saved equipment from your inventory, other ships, or bank.
  • Items in your account bank or fleet bank will not be retrieved.
  • Changing a build takes any gear currently equipped and places it into your inventory or Overflow bag.
  • Use Save As... to save any changes to your current loadout, or Rename it. Both are in the Manage Loadouts Menu.
  • There is a 60 second cooldown between switching loadouts.
[/list]
We need to see what the pricing for the loadout slots is but if its 1000 zen or less for 10 then that would be 100 zen for a slot. I could afford to have 1 or 2 slots wasted on ships I decided to put 3 or more loadouts on, especially if they were lockbox/special sihps. I'm assuming that they stick with typical STO pricing for services though, not NW type prices.

I fully expect to be very limiting on how I use payed for loadout slots and consider carefully before I put 3 or more different loadout options on one ship.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 392
# 77
01-28-2014, 06:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaturnley View Post
Then why exactly are you insisting that it has to be fixed before this goes live? Obviously it wasn't a priority for them, perhaps you are confusing their "vision" of how we should be playing for how you play - nobody I play with bothers to get multiple sets of space gear, they just get one and move it to whatever ship they are using when they want to use it. To do otherwise is a waste of time, and, more importantly, precious inventory slots.
So what you are saying is that everyone you know that plays has all their gear on one ship and the other ships they have are empty of equipment? I will say that the people I KNOW and play with do have ships filled with gear set for multiple purposes. What the loadout system could do is allow this on their favorite ship.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaturnley View Post
And where is your assumption that they will NOT listen to the feedback being overwhelmingly stated in this thread coming from? You are simply fear mongering (DOOOOOOM!); there has been no mention either way, because it's been two days. Believe it or not, Cryptic is interested in making sure that the game is playable in the way we want to play it, not purposefully going around to piss players off. They didn't spend hundreds of man-hours developing a system that has been frequently requested for 4 years so that nobody will use it.
It is not my assumption, but based off of four years of playing this game and watching it be developed. Once something hits Tribble, especially the larger systems, there is little change to them no matter what the community points out. If they truly have the desire to make the game we want to play, then they are still going about it in the wrong way by not engaging the community at early stages rather than the final stages of systems meant to improve the quality of life in game. As far as "doom" and "fear mongering", that is quite an emotional response and no where in my posts am I saying the game is over. I am providing constructive criticism here. You think the system is perfect, fine, that is your opinion which is shared by players and mine is that it need to be improved which is also shared by many players.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jaturnley View Post
See above. You are basing all of this on the assumption that this is how the system is going to go live. We are here in this thread to tell the devs what we feel is not working in the current build. To constantly prophesize doom in the test forums is not helpful and in fact is harmful to the game. Give good feedback, with good reasons, and leave it at that - there's no need to go around spouting all this anti-Cryptic rhetoric.
See my above. I do give good feedback and I do give good reason. Pointing out things that need improvement that get ignored are even more harmful to the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaturnley View Post
I will admit I have not been as active in multiple MMOs as of the last year or so, but I can't think of a single one that I do play where you don't have to go to a location to access your bank storage. If you can access it anywhere, it's not bank storage, it's inventory. STO is actually pretty generous in this regard, allowing you to get the trade freighter item for free, letting you use other people's trade freighters (the 30 minute timer isn't bad when you are in a group and can stagger usage), and letting you get to the account back from any bridge.
SWTOR is one, I can access everything from inside my ship. I still need to go to social zones however for specific vendors, as a hub for different missions, for some crafting, etc...
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 392
# 78
02-12-2014, 06:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaturnley View Post
And where is your assumption that they will NOT listen to the feedback being overwhelmingly stated in this thread coming from? You are simply fear mongering (DOOOOOOM!); there has been no mention either way, because it's been two days. Believe it or not, Cryptic is interested in making sure that the game is playable in the way we want to play it, not purposefully going around to piss players off. They didn't spend hundreds of man-hours developing a system that has been frequently requested for 4 years so that nobody will use it.
Foot meet mouth...assumption validated

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh....php?t=1019981

Like I said, once it hits Tribble it is basically in final form no matter what we feel, say, or point out.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,984
# 79
02-13-2014, 05:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by commodoreshrvk View Post
Foot meet mouth...assumption validated

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh....php?t=1019981

Like I said, once it hits Tribble it is basically in final form no matter what we feel, say, or point out.
Yup, it will be horrible.

Lets hope they add a toggle so we can turn the loadout and item switching off.

I have found that it is actually slower than the old system of just going to a ship selector and swapping items out....

My Chars = 1 Main (Fed Eng) & 5 Mules for fun.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kitsune424 View Post
Here is your ticket to the USS Stupidity, Third class, four tacks on the chair, rules state you MUST sit on the chair, no standing, or hovering above the tacks, thank you have a nice day
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,022
# 80
02-13-2014, 05:14 AM
Well, I can't speak for any of you, but I'm loving the feature, as is, even if it is making me re-think my entire inventory management scheme.

Firstly, it let me delete like 15 or so extra tac consoles, 2 old mk11 STF sets, my spare assimilated module, ETC... No need to have duplicate gear, even for your shuttle.

Second, getting rid of all the fluff gear let me discharge some of my ships that I had around just for storage purposes, and let me clean up the others that I never flew because they were holding more gear for me.

Third, instead of carrying one of every torp type and mine type so I could switch them out when I wanted too, I can leave them all on ships and just swap loadout or pluck one with quick equip when I want to. That alone opened up like 20 inventory slots.

Fourth, It is still faster for me to switch loadouts a bunch of times, then hit a ship selector NPC and dump the gear back then it would have taken me to fly back to that spot anyway, manually rearange things, set my boffs and doffs, fly away, realize I forgot something, fly back... YEah...

So, even with the inventory being used in such a manner, I'm not finding a real downside. The system itself provided me more then enough inventory space just by existing for me to not worry about switching ships or loadouts once in a while.

And... It's not like I can't just park outside K-7 like I usually do and pop in if my inventory gets full...
Vice Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
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