Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,352
# 21
01-28-2014, 02:43 PM
Unless you're using wonky tracking, THEIR damage output won't enhance YOUR dps...

If you're only doing X per shot, you're only doing X per shot. They aren't going to make you do X times 10. The only things they could do are add short-term buffs like APA or FOMM for short team buffs, or cruiser commands to help out.

Your DPS tracking has to be royally screwed up if you do a run in 2 minutes and it says you did 20k DPS in your double d. YOU didn't do it, THEY did. I find when those kinds of runs happen it actually tanks my DPS because they kill everything before I can get to it. I get there, blow all my tactical buffs, only get a handful of shots off, then have to reposition. It means more time moving, less shooting, crappy DPS at the end. Oh, and all my buffs get wasted and they're on CD when I get my next chance to shoot.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,005
# 22
01-28-2014, 03:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodentmaster View Post
Unless you're using wonky tracking, THEIR damage output won't enhance YOUR dps...

If you're only doing X per shot, you're only doing X per shot. They aren't going to make you do X times 10. The only things they could do are add short-term buffs like APA or FOMM for short team buffs, or cruiser commands to help out.

Your DPS tracking has to be royally screwed up if you do a run in 2 minutes and it says you did 20k DPS in your double d. YOU didn't do it, THEY did. I find when those kinds of runs happen it actually tanks my DPS because they kill everything before I can get to it. I get there, blow all my tactical buffs, only get a handful of shots off, then have to reposition. It means more time moving, less shooting, crappy DPS at the end. Oh, and all my buffs get wasted and they're on CD when I get my next chance to shoot.
i see the intricate mechanics and functions of an encounter combat parser have not reached you yet.

when dmg done is divided by encounter duration, the time you spend in combat is very, very important to determine your DPS during that encounter.

there is no DPS meter for STO, you can only parse combatlogs...don't treat it like a dps meter.
Go pro or go home
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,776
# 23
01-28-2014, 03:03 PM
Rodent...you don't understand.

Let's to a quick basic example

You have a buff that last 5 seconds and double your dps
It has a cool down of 5 seconds.

You do a fight, it last 5 seconds. You did double dps you normally would've done without the buff

You do another fight, it last 10 seconds. You essentially did 1.5 the dps you would've done without the buff.

Quicker runs lead to more uptime vs downtime which yields more dps.

That is why running in a quick killing group yields better dps then running with a pug full of slackers.

There's many other variants, but as for the point about faster groups not yielding higher dps...that's incorrect
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Last edited by dahminus; 01-28-2014 at 03:06 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,352
# 24
01-29-2014, 12:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dahminus View Post
Rodent...you don't understand.

Let's to a quick basic example

You have a buff that last 5 seconds and double your dps
It has a cool down of 5 seconds.

You do a fight, it last 5 seconds. You did double dps you normally would've done without the buff

You do another fight, it last 10 seconds. You essentially did 1.5 the dps you would've done without the buff.

Quicker runs lead to more uptime vs downtime which yields more dps.

That is why running in a quick killing group yields better dps then running with a pug full of slackers.

There's many other variants, but as for the point about faster groups not yielding higher dps...that's incorrect

Unless we're literally talking matches that only last 1 power cycle, that doesn't come into play. You're still hitting at least 4-5 cycles of buff/cooldown even in the SHORTEST of record-breaking matches.

In that respect once you get past 1 cycle, it all evens out. If you do 5 cycles of cooldown or 500, your DPS will be the same.


Baudl: You're assuming that you are doing your fair share of the damage. All other things being equal, if you reduce the time then your DPS will go up. In the example you described where the bulk of the damage is being done by OTHER ships, you DPS is much more likely to DROP, as you have less time but also much less damage to divide it by.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,005
# 25
01-29-2014, 01:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodentmaster View Post
Unless we're literally talking matches that only last 1 power cycle, that doesn't come into play. You're still hitting at least 4-5 cycles of buff/cooldown even in the SHORTEST of record-breaking matches.

In that respect once you get past 1 cycle, it all evens out. If you do 5 cycles of cooldown or 500, your DPS will be the same.


Baudl: You're assuming that you are doing your fair share of the damage. All other things being equal, if you reduce the time then your DPS will go up. In the example you described where the bulk of the damage is being done by OTHER ships, you DPS is much more likely to DROP, as you have less time but also much less damage to divide it by.
that is what you think, yet you completely ignore this simple fact that the duration of an ecounter is a defining factor for your DPS during that encounter when parsing encounter DPS.

i'm not repeating myself, simply because you chose to ignore it, but so much is for certain. In a simple formula like encounter dmg divided by encounter duration, the encounter duration has a HUGE impact on the outcome.
In my parses i even i wind up with pretty constant overall dmg numbers at around 3-4 million. Though the time varys significantly depending on the grp. From 3-10 minutes and guess which has the highest encounter DPS number.
Go pro or go home

Last edited by baudl; 01-29-2014 at 01:12 PM.
Commander
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 363
# 26
01-29-2014, 01:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodentmaster View Post
Unless we're literally talking matches that only last 1 power cycle, that doesn't come into play. You're still hitting at least 4-5 cycles of buff/cooldown even in the SHORTEST of record-breaking matches.

In that respect once you get past 1 cycle, it all evens out. If you do 5 cycles of cooldown or 500, your DPS will be the same.


Baudl: You're assuming that you are doing your fair share of the damage. All other things being equal, if you reduce the time then your DPS will go up. In the example you described where the bulk of the damage is being done by OTHER ships, you DPS is much more likely to DROP, as you have less time but also much less damage to divide it by.
5 coordinated Tac Captains = 2 minutes and 30 seconds of +20% more total damage
Go Down Fighting has a cooldown of 4 minutes. The less time the encounter takes, the more overall DPS GDF gives.
Nimbus Pirates has a cooldown of 15 minutes. The less time the encounter takes, the more overall DPS NP gives.
etc. etc. etc.

Of course, the real reason why a GOOD pre-made group will inflate your DPS is because most of these players actually use their abilities. Next time you're in an ISE pug, count how many Tac captains there are, and pay attention to how many times Tac Fleet and Fire on my Mark are used. Pay attention to how many Sci captains there are and how many times Sensor Scan was used. You'll soon realize that it isn't equipment, builds, or ship that are causing people to do low DPS, but rather, just plain bad piloting.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 389
# 27
01-30-2014, 06:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by edalgo View Post
I think you hit the nail on the head
I'm not jealous of you guys in a bad way, like troll level or hatred level, but I am jealous of you guys so I constantly try to get better. I've never understood why people hate on people who are better than them. Ant, boot. lmao
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,124
# 28
01-30-2014, 06:18 AM
If the OP can't get 10k out of that ship and that build (despite not being optimal) it isn't about the build, don't fixate on the build because its squeezing lemonade out of a rock at that point. The problem is the OP, you aren't skilled enough in the use and timing of that ship (possibly any ship) in the game, work on your own tactics then come back to tinkering with builds.

That ship can get well over 15k without even trying in something like CSE.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,671
# 29
01-30-2014, 07:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by redz4tw View Post
I'm not jealous of you guys in a bad way, like troll level or hatred level, but I am jealous of you guys so I constantly try to get better. I've never understood why people hate on people who are better than them. Ant, boot. lmao
Reach out to people. Honestly I wouldn't know anything about this game if it weren't for the combined knowledge and research of everyone I ask.

It can be as simple as your boff rotation, piloting, or something as simple as not having weapon power as high as possible. Example : I did a 1vs1 with a fleet mate, really just looking to see how he flies and his boff rotation. I wasn't trying to kill him but just engage him, he's not a PvPer. He wasn't using APA! His DPS increased 4K in ESTFs! He went from tickling my shields to if I'm not paying attention I'm dead. Also I addressed some of his defensive buffs in order for him to survive longer ( And it was just, hey pay attention to the hud) . Sometimes it's the little things that need to be addressed.

Whether you PvP or not sometimes a little training session 1vs1 will give people a better way to analyze and assist. Most of the time it's not the build but in how you use it. It takes practice
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,776
# 30
01-30-2014, 07:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodentmaster View Post
Unless we're literally talking matches that only last 1 power cycle, that doesn't come into play. You're still hitting at least 4-5 cycles of buff/cooldown even in the SHORTEST of record-breaking matches.

In that respect once you get past 1 cycle, it all evens out. If you do 5 cycles of cooldown or 500, your DPS will be the same.

....It was an example...I am not going to give to the whole data spiel of how the my example compares to an ise run...

To think I meant an ise match literally lasts 5 seconds...


The example is to show that shorter matches will lead to higher dps results due to higher uptimes...

I hope that makes sense
Chive on and prosper

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