Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,741
# 31
01-30-2014, 07:41 AM
Damage per Second

Damage dealt divided by seconds

Less seconds means higher ratio given the same damage.
Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 252
# 32
01-30-2014, 08:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by edalgo View Post
Damage per Second

Damage dealt divided by seconds

Less seconds means higher ratio given the same damage.
I am seeing a whole LOT of confusion in this thread about what is being measured and what we are TRYING to measure.

What we are TRYING to measure is relative strength of a build with respect to doing damage. Normally DPS meters measure DPS while DPSing. This is what we physics/engineering people would probably call 'instantaneous' DPS. This means that whatever measurement you are using, your calculations should NOT include time not spent 'in combat' as your divisor.

While one could (quite rightly) argue that this dead time reflects your competence as a captain to travel quickly from target to target during downtime, and be in the right place in the right time to reduce downtime, it really isn't relevant to the damage potential of a ship or build, but your skill as a captain.

As STO is a bit different than most MMOs with respect to the need to maneuver during combat, etc, I believe that any time spent 'in combat' should be counted. Also, the longer the fight, the more accurate your measurement of sustained DPS is going to be. DPS is not Burst, and Burst is not DPS. Normally in high end PvE, Burst is good for certain raid mechanics, but DPS is the main measurement. So, if you have a foundry mission that has an infinite hull strength target with the shields and shield regen of, say, a borg tac cube, you could shoot at it with your build for a solid 10 minutes, and get a solid measurement of your optimum 'DPS.' This number will not respresent actual numbers in a 'raid' (or STF) scenario, as the need for movement and targeting arcs comes into play, and thats play skill. This reflects the difference in, say, WoW, of target dummy numbers versus real raid fight numbers (where there are mechanics and you have to move, etc). However if you are trying to compare two builds potential for sustained damage (not Burst), comparing the target dummy numbers is going to get you the best results.

This doesn't consider the difference between single target damage potential and AoE damage potential. Normally in MMOs, AoE (or Cleave) is not as important because those are the easy (trash) fights and single target is far more important. In STO I would say the two are probably equally important, but it really depends a lot on the encounter. At any rate your foundry training 'dummy' should have a single target option and an AoE option to really get an accurate test of both scenarios to compare. A FAW A2B build is going to do fantastic AoE, a CRF DHC build is going to do fantastic single target.
__________________________________________________ __
Pay no attention to the dates and titles under my name at the left! I am a Career Officer, Lifetime Sub since launch, was in the Beta. Having problems with my forum account.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,008
# 33
01-30-2014, 08:24 AM
So, does anybody know a good foundry mission that provides sterile testing environment?

by that i mean a single target part and an AoE part.
capped times for both...say 5-7 minutes for each to flat out crit spikes.
constant duration is important.
Go pro or go home

Last edited by baudl; 01-30-2014 at 08:28 AM.
Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 252
# 34
01-30-2014, 08:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by baudl View Post
So, does anybody know a good foundry mission that provides sterile testing environment?

by that i mean a single target part and an AoE part.
capped times for both...say 5-7 minutes for each to flat out crit spikes.
constant duration is important.
If I looked I could probably find something, or make something. Honestly I haven't spent a lot of time in STO recently, just enough to get my daily Dyson rep commendation. I haven't even leveled Bukara rep past stage 2!

I think setting up the foundry mission should be not-so-hard (for single target, a bit trickier for AoE: positioning, how many targets, etc). Getting the right log parser and knowing how to get it to spit out reliable data is the toughy. I still rely on a buddy sitting in the instance with me running one. I do NOT have the inclination to learn one.

I would suspect though, that in terms of duration of the measuring time, your parser might be able to set up an artificial cutoff where it stops using the log data. So even if you futzed about a bit in minutes 8 and 9, and then it took you another minute to warp out (just say), you could cut off the log at 7 minutes for the parser to use? That's a guess though.
__________________________________________________ __
Pay no attention to the dates and titles under my name at the left! I am a Career Officer, Lifetime Sub since launch, was in the Beta. Having problems with my forum account.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,741
# 35
01-30-2014, 09:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by twoblindmonks View Post
I am seeing a whole LOT of confusion in this thread about what is being measured and what we are TRYING to measure.

What we are TRYING to measure is relative strength of a build with respect to doing damage. Normally DPS meters measure DPS while DPSing. This is what we physics/engineering people would probably call 'instantaneous' DPS. This means that whatever measurement you are using, your calculations should NOT include time not spent 'in combat' as your divisor.

While one could (quite rightly) argue that this dead time reflects your competence as a captain to travel quickly from target to target during downtime, and be in the right place in the right time to reduce downtime, it really isn't relevant to the damage potential of a ship or ubuild, but your skill as a captain.

As STO is a bit different than most MMOs with respect to the need to maneuver during combat, etc, I believe that any time spent 'in combat' should be counted. Also, the longer the fight, the more accurate your measurement of sustained DPS is going to be. DPS is not Burst, and Burst is not DPS. Normally in high end PvE, Burst is good for certain raid mechanics, but DPS is the main measurement. So, if you have a foundry mission that has an infinite hull strength target with the shields and shield regen of, say, a borg tac cube, you could shoot at it with your build for a solid 10 minutes, and get a solid measurement of your optimum 'DPS.' This number will not respresent actual numbers in a 'raid' (or STF) scenario, as the need for movement and targeting arcs comes into play, and thats play skill. This reflects the difference in, say, WoW, of target dummy numbers versus real raid fight numbers (where there are mechanics and you have to move, etc). However if you are trying to compare two builds potential for sustained damage (not Burst), comparing the target dummy numbers is going to get you the best results.

This doesn't consider the difference between single target damage potential and AoE damage potential. Normally in MMOs, AoE (or Cleave) is not as important because those are the easy (trash) fights and single target is far more important. In STO I would say the two are probably equally important, but it really depends a lot on the encounter. At any rate your foundry training 'dummy' should have a single target option and an AoE option to really get an accurate test of both scenarios to compare. A FAW A2B build is going to do fantastic AoE, a CRF DHC build is going to do fantastic single target.
Oh I know this. It's not perfect but I was just bringing up the basics for some people.

It's hard bc there are many different missions and objectives as well as enemies. 20k+ dps in KASE is good while 3k-5k is great for Crystalline Entity. Then PvP where sustained dps is not as critical as spike which leads to lower overall dps. Same build and boff rotation to a point but greatly different results.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 107
# 36
02-25-2014, 11:48 AM
The torpedo is killing your damage. This build

http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?...uildgibbs_4854

is an easy 15k, if I actually try and play harder the damage easily hits 19k or so
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,008
# 37
02-25-2014, 01:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hpgibbs View Post
The torpedo is killing your damage. This build

http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?...uildgibbs_4854

is an easy 15k, if I actually try and play harder the damage easily hits 19k or so
and the DBB is doing the same for you, not as drastically, but still...

and 2xHE on a A2B build?
no assimilated console?
Go pro or go home

Last edited by baudl; 02-25-2014 at 01:54 PM.
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