Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 111
01-17-2010, 10:48 PM
Regarding bypassing heap validation, with GDB it's possible to hide signals from the application so it never sees the error - I think winedbg can do something similar. I don't intend to sound negative, but In practice this is almost never useful because it's the memory itself that's corrupted and not the process of validating it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 112
01-17-2010, 11:31 PM
@Mobox, not really, i cannee do it capin'.

I could provide a huge list of negatives why i will never use windows again.
But i prefer to think positive, i will just move on, sto is not the only game in town.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 113
01-17-2010, 11:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Girdus
Isn't the entire point of wine isn't that it isn't an emulator and it's supposed to be a bug for bug reimplementation of the win32 api? Isn't pure ABI compatibility so all things windows would work the ultimate goal?

Although now at least we know that there won't ever be a mac client
That's the "idea". Eventually. It's not perfect yet by any means, and there's always some "discussion" when the API/ABI from Windows doesn't match documentation. And then there's always the times when there are extra "tricks" to functions that aren't documented.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobox
LOL

Anyways, its too bad that there is a lot more wrong with the way wine handles the game than just a few simple fixes. I hope I get enough schooling to understand more of the concepts involved, as this seems pretty damn fun. Someone tell me if this game is worth it to pir- er, buy a copy of windows just to play sto on.
No one knows if it's a "lot" of fixes needed or just one. I've worked on a few games, and ironically enough most games have more trouble "loading" than running. Usually it's 3rd-client? launchers that cause issue (ie the launcher/login system is a different EXE). This one was simple to get working, WoW has an internal one (no issues at all), LotRO has a separate EXE/.NET program that had to be reverse engineered).

Anyway, I'm still hopeful that getting past this "loading" but will actually get the game working, in which case it might only be a 2-3 line fix.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jalbert82 View Post
Regarding bypassing heap validation, with GDB it's possible to hide signals from the application so it never sees the error - I think winedbg can do something similar. I don't intend to sound negative, but In practice this is almost never useful because it's the memory itself that's corrupted and not the process of validating it.
Yeah I'm not keen on bypassing heap validation, it'll add troubles later on.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 114
01-18-2010, 12:16 AM
I understand putting the blinders on Wine may be a bad idea now, but just to see if it belches something else useful after the crash or even if it turns out to be harmless, it wouldn't hurt to try, would it?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 115
01-18-2010, 12:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by S31-Syntax View Post
I understand putting the blinders on Wine may be a bad idea now, but just to see if it belches something else useful after the crash or even if it turns out to be harmless, it wouldn't hurt to try, would it?
Here's how I see this playing out:

Disable heap validation (which, FYI, is actually happening inside Cryptic code aka would require Cryptic be willing to send out what is actually a debug build to us/someone)
Get game loaded to some sort of menu.
Have game crash due to heap not functioning as expected.



Now, while I admit it is "possible" that the heap validation code is broken, I doubt it (as if it were, it'd be more than Wine users seeing this issue). I think most likely is that wine memory/heap code doesn't work as Cryptic expected, due to some reason.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 116
01-18-2010, 12:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by S31-Syntax View Post
I understand putting the blinders on Wine may be a bad idea now, but just to see if it belches something else useful after the crash or even if it turns out to be harmless, it wouldn't hurt to try, would it?
The ideal situation is to get a wine coder in to cryptic, have them sign the NDA, then work out what calls need to be kluged into WINE.

I thing the ideal way to do this is say some sort of Summer of Code like google runs. I dont know what Cryptic would say, but it would be ideal for some CS student to do as a summer project.

Darryl

BTW, feeling dirty, installing VISTA on VMware (shudder). Lets see if that pain is worth it
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 117
01-18-2010, 08:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderanger
Mac client != native client :-P Or at least it doesn't have to mean native client. Wine's goal is to be a perfect Windows emulator, but that isn't to say it already is.
That's not what I was implying. I was just asserting that your claim of wine not being a good emulator (which it isn't) was false. ABI translation layers are complex beasts, but the gaol is to get this and just about every other program working. To discount the idea that wine isn't good enough (it runs other games just fine, even though some pay special mind to wine's, uh, special needs) is just a bit offsetting.

Really what this boils down to, and what you've stated, is that we (the consumers) should not expect any support in the form of wine testing, or any other clients for any other systems.

All of that is fair, your product, your priorities. You've got to cater to the masses before you throw scrapes to the few.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 118
01-18-2010, 08:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vangerald View Post
The ideal situation is to get a wine coder in to cryptic, have them sign the NDA, then work out what calls need to be kluged into WINE.

I thing the ideal way to do this is say some sort of Summer of Code like google runs. I dont know what Cryptic would say, but it would be ideal for some CS student to do as a summer project.
That is a really good idea. I'll make some posts on the wine forums to see if anyone is interested in STO and / or just improving wine's compatibility. I wonder what the cryptic devs would have to say about it...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 119
01-18-2010, 11:17 AM
Well, I just thought I'd pop in and mention that I did manage to get STO running on my 64-bit Gentoo box using the open source VirtualBox version 3.1.0 and Windows XP, It currently looks absolutely terrible, but it is playable. I'll see if I can't clean it up a bit, toss it an extra processor or something.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 120
01-18-2010, 11:31 AM
I'll suffer with windoze for now then.....
Was hoping to hear that crossover or another product would have taken care of it...
The sad this is my widoze box is just at the min req, but my macbook is well above.... *sigh* The things one must do for star trek...
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