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Republic Veteran
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1,211
# 31
02-17-2014, 10:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kodachikuno View Post
Im gonna have to go with yes... Why? Because lets convince everyone (well the bulk of the Romulan NPCs anyways) that tinkering with an ancient Iconian gate is a great idea then, despite mounting evidence there are catastrophic risks, lets turn it on!! YEAH! No way in which this carefully laid plan, on a short timetable, could possibly go wrong. I quantify it as an experiment on its citizens since it was risking the entire population they just convinced to colonize here.
*pats you on the head* Cute, but still a phail. Go back and replay that mission, and pay closer attention.

Fvillhu s'Tal'Diann (Phi'Tlaru Rihan) Praetor of the Tal'Diann/Tal-Diann
Tal'Diann = KDF-allied Romulan Republic Fleet / Tal-Diann = Fed-allied Romulan Republic Fleet
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 489
# 32
02-17-2014, 01:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by protogoth View Post
*pats you on the head* Cute, but still a phail. Go back and replay that mission, and pay closer attention.
We all know you've got a crush on D'tan and the gang no point hiding it.


But all kidding aside the Tal shiar were mentioned once in Tng. The "favored depictions" of Romulans was the Military not the Tal shiar in Tng and Tos. The episode (The Enemy) showed that killing infants with birth defects was common and normal to the vast population (not everyone). the Romulan society by and large was shown to be a secretive and xenophobic culture on tv. Now whether that was meant or not, is a point to be debated at another time. What we do have to go on is two different lines of thought. There was a underground movement that wanted reunification and a more open government but again that was never shown to be the majority of the Romulan population on tv. The Books and novels are pretty good in my opinion but they don't supercede or rewrite the canon established on the show.


The main mistake Cryptic has made with the Romulan storyline is trying to pigeonhole almost all Romulan civilians into a mold of Republic or bust, that fits no better then the idea that all Romulans whether their in the Empire or not are mustache twirling baddies. Also the Crazy notion that the Tal shiar could take over the Empire disaster or no, is no more believable then the Intelligence agencies of Britain or the United States Being able to take over their countries armies and take control of the respective countries.


(So the main problem is some want to go of the books others want to stick with the tv series and the movies, and what we get left with is pure conjecture and personal opinions. So I say be whoever you want. If you want to be a republic guy or gal do so. If you want to be a Romulan empire guy or gal do so. There are some great tools in the foundry since theres no real option for non allied, non beholden Romulans in game. *cough* Typhon Pact *cough*)
Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,895
# 33
02-17-2014, 01:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by astro2244 View Post
We all know you've got a crush on D'tan and the gang no point hiding it.


But all kidding aside the Tal shiar were mentioned once in Tng. The "favored depictions" of Romulans was the Military not the Tal shiar in Tng and Tos. The episode (The Enemy) showed that killing infants with birth defects was common and normal to the vast population (not everyone). the Romulan society by and large was shown to be a secretive and xenophobic culture on tv. Now whether that was meant or not, is a point to be debated at another time. What we do have to go on is two different lines of thought. There was a underground movement that wanted reunification and a more open government but again that was never shown to be the majority of the Romulan population on tv. The Books and novels are pretty good in my opinion but they don't supercede or rewrite the canon established on the show.


The main mistake Cryptic has made with the Romulan storyline is trying to pigeonhole almost all Romulan civilians into a mold of Republic or bust, that fits no better then the idea that all Romulans whether their in the Empire or not are mustache twirling baddies. Also the Crazy notion that the Tal shiar could take over the Empire disaster or no, is no more believable then the Intelligence agencies of Britain or the United States Being able to take over their countries armies and take control of the respective countries.


(So the main problem is some want to go of the books others want to stick with the tv series and the movies, and what we get left with is pure conjecture and personal opinions. So I say be whoever you want. If you want to be a republic guy or gal do so. If you want to be a Romulan empire guy or gal do so. There are some great tools in the foundry since theres no real option for non allied, non beholden Romulans in game. *cough* Typhon Pact *cough*)
The tal'shiar was mentioned more often.
I'm quiet sure that it was clearly stated that it was the Tal'Shiar building the invasion force with the Obsidian Order that tried to erase the founders homeworld (although I think it was also stated that this failure ultimatly destroyed the Tal'Shiar as much as the Order).
Also I think it was mentioned in "inter arms silent leges"


My beef with the Romulans is not even that the current development is unrealistic. Societies change. Even the Roman Empire on earth DID after all end.

And the destruction of Romulus having a major impact on what is left of the Romulan people is a quiet natural conclusion. Methods like... well killling children with birth defects, assumed that would have made sense in the first place, would simply end in a society of survivors where you are lucky if you get up your population numbers SOMEHOW.

But again its a video game that should immerse us into what we have seen, and the romulans we have seen are not at all like the Romulans in the game.
Given, Klingons are a comic caricatures of Klingons in the series, but at least there are similarities.

What we get isn't bad. But it feels to me like its not what is advertised when I buy "playable romulans". That would be, pretty much what you described...

As for what I want to play.... From a role playing point I end up just like my KDF as a "Mercanary working for D'tan ... as long as he pays"^^
Its even for a major part the same crew^^
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Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 489
# 34
02-17-2014, 02:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by revandarklighter View Post
The tal'shiar was mentioned more often.
I'm quiet sure that it was clearly stated that it was the Tal'Shiar building the invasion force with the Obsidian Order that tried to erase the founders homeworld (although I think it was also stated that this failure ultimatly destroyed the Tal'Shiar as much as the Order).
Also I think it was mentioned in "inter arms silent leges"


My beef with the Romulans is not even that the current development is unrealistic. Societies change. Even the Roman Empire on earth DID after all end.

And the destruction of Romulus having a major impact on what is left of the Romulan people is a quiet natural conclusion. Methods like... well killling children with birth defects, assumed that would have made sense in the first place, would simply end in a society of survivors where you are lucky if you get up your population numbers SOMEHOW.

But again its a video game that should immerse us into what we have seen, and the romulans we have seen are not at all like the Romulans in the game.
Given, Klingons are a comic caricatures of Klingons in the series, but at least there are similarities.

What we get isn't bad. But it feels to me like its not what is advertised when I buy "playable romulans". That would be, pretty much what you described...

As for what I want to play.... From a role playing point I end up just like my KDF as a "Mercanary working for D'tan ... as long as he pays"^^
Its even for a major part the same crew^^



With all due respect I have to disagree with the one point on the Tal shiar. They were mentioned in one episode of Tng (face of the enemy) it wasn't till Ds9 that the Tal shiar was featured more and in one episode (message in a bottle) of Voy. Other then that I agree.

But yeah the Tal shiar was largly crippled after the failed joint mission with the Obsidian order.




I wouldn't have minded a joint Romulan Cardassian Faction in game if it meant having a real third faction.
Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,895
# 35
02-17-2014, 02:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by astro2244 View Post
With all due respect I have to disagree with the one point on the Tal shiar. They were mentioned in one episode of Tng (face of the enemy) it wasn't till Ds9 that the Tal shiar was featured more and in one episode (message in a bottle) of Voy. Other then that I agree.

But yeah the Tal shiar was largly crippled after the failed joint mission with the Obsidian order.




I wouldn't have minded a joint Romulan Cardassian Faction in game if it meant having a real third faction.
With all due respect, According to this I am right, the Tal'Shiar was responsible for the Romulan contribution the joint operation and played a major role in "inter arma".

And I'm pretty sure Tain clearly tells Garak that...
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Republic Veteran
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1,211
# 36
02-17-2014, 05:31 PM
You guys may not realize this, but we have had this discussion several times before.

"STO Roms aren't like TV Roms." Proven incorrect repeatedly.

"STO Roms should be backstabbing, paranoid, scheming, deceitful, and xenophobic." Proven incorrect repeatedly.

"Tal'Shiar on TV are nowhere near the exaggerated Tal'Shiar in STO." Proven incorrect repeatedly.

"D'Tan wants us all to be soulless robots without feelings." Laughable failure to understand what Cthia means in the first place, let alone what Reunification means (and pure ignorance of the history of Reunification, which was first attempted by the Romulans in ENT). Again, proven incorrect repeatedly.

And on
and on
and on
and on
and on.

I would prefer not to have to repeat myself every few months; the debate has already happened more than once, and the ones favoring Tal'Shiar and/or RSE lost every time. Read the archives in this subforum and stop rehashing tired nonsense.

We are the New Romulan Republic. If you want to be Tal'Shiar and/or Imperialist Romulans, fine, but any interference in the affairs of the Republic will result in our hunting you down and eradicating you. Freedom is our watchword, not slavery.

Fvillhu s'Tal'Diann (Phi'Tlaru Rihan) Praetor of the Tal'Diann/Tal-Diann
Tal'Diann = KDF-allied Romulan Republic Fleet / Tal-Diann = Fed-allied Romulan Republic Fleet
Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,895
# 37
02-17-2014, 05:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by protogoth View Post
You guys may not realize this, but we have had this discussion several times before.

"STO Roms aren't like TV Roms." Proven incorrect repeatedly.

"STO Roms should be backstabbing, paranoid, scheming, deceitful, and xenophobic." Proven incorrect repeatedly.

"Tal'Shiar on TV are nowhere near the exaggerated Tal'Shiar in STO." Proven incorrect repeatedly.
.
Your opinion is not proof.
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Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 164
# 38
02-17-2014, 06:05 PM
My understanding is that CBS has said that the Tal Shiar are the villains end of discussion, and no I do not have any proof as this is my opinion. Cryptic, to my knowledge, has stated that in STO players will not be allowed to play the empires that have been labeled as evil. Do I agree with that, no, can I live with that, yes, IMHO they are depriving themselves of a good story hook.
Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 515
# 39
02-17-2014, 06:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by protogoth View Post
*pats you on the head* Cute, but still a phail. Go back and replay that mission, and pay closer attention.
I played it 6 times, I remember it fine... apparently you need to go back and re-play it and not skip all the text. Ignoring Worf's ******** to keep the gate offline, the chief engineer that ends up being killed also had misgivings based on the data right before powering on. Its also mentioned several times in npc text that they're on a time table and have to make it, so they cannot take more time to research things... because Elements forbid we not put on the great show D'Tan promised the Klingons and Federation. Apparently D'Tan and the Republic cannot survive a little embarrassment for having to say something like, 'Due to serious safety and security concerns we will have to hold off on activating the gateway.'
The lead scientist was exhausted from all the work to make the timetable(not to mention that she was modified to sabotage the whole operation). And apparently there was not even any standard double checking of data by multiple persons, since according to the plot in subspace they only needed her to unconsciously rig the whole thing.

Kererek and D'Tan were glory hounding and risked everyone for a moment of prestige. Had we not risked going through that gate they would have succeeded in killing off millions(billions?) more Romulans and the Hobus Incident would have a wonderful companion on the Romulan race's posthumous history file.

Last edited by kodachikuno; 02-17-2014 at 06:16 PM.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 13,583
# 40
02-17-2014, 06:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kodachikuno View Post
I played it 6 times, I remember it fine... apparently you need to go back and re-play it and not skip all the text. Ignoring Worf's ******** to keep the gate offline, the chief engineer that ends up being killed also had misgivings based on the data right before powering on. Its also mentioned several times in npc text that they're on a time table and have to make it, so they cannot take more time to research things... because Elements forbid we not put on the great show D'Tan promised the Klingons and Federation. Apparently D'Tan and the Republic cannot survive a little embarrassment for having to say something like, 'Due to serious safety and security concerns we will have to hold off on activating the gateway.'
The lead scientist was exhausted from all the work to make the timetable(not to mention that she was modified to sabotage the whole operation). And apparently there was not even any standard double checking of data by multiple persons, since according to the plot in subspace they only needed her to unconsciously rig the whole thing.

Kererek and D'Tan were glory hounding and risked everyone for a moment of prestige. Had we not risked going through that gate they would have succeeded in killing off millions(billions?) more Romulans and the Hobus Incident would have a wonderful companion on the Romulan race's posthumous history file.
The question isn't whether they though something COULD go wrong, but whether they though THAT could happen. They didn't anticipate the possibility that the gate had been intentionally sabotaged.
HAIL HYDRA!

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