Star Trek Online Fun with numbers (Exploiters vs Locators)
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,939
# 11
02-25-2014, 05:13 AM
Quote:
 Originally Posted by atmawpn It's not about your crth, but the ratio of crth to crtd. Specifically crth should be at a 1:10 ratio to your crtd-100. So if you have 5% crth you should have 150% crtd. At 8% crth it should be 180% crtd and so forth. To disprove your hypothesis of a crth 20 threshold for locator vs exploiter, compare the following ratios: crth 4 vs crtd 150. And crth 6 vs crtd 150. Compare the additional damage you will get with either a crth 2 mod or a crtd 20 mod. To extend this, try testing a ratio of crth 5 vs crtd 150. Either mod goes in this instance. Incidentally this kinda proves the exploiter < locator sayings.
what you ignored is, that the ratio is not linear 1:10...at higher crtH, the less amount crtD you need to reach the dmg increase of a single crtH %.

the optimum ratio moves from 1:10 at <10% crtH to 1:5 at around 20% crtH and so on....you can imagine that at 99% crtH the ratio looks more like 10:1 than 1:10.

i'd asume that at 50% crtH the optimum ratio is 1:1
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,714
# 12
02-25-2014, 05:28 AM
Quote:
 Originally Posted by rylanadionysis The reason for this little thread is because I have discovered something mathematically that you might all enjoy. If you have a critical hit chance of less than 20 before adding them, the locators seem to win out If you have a critical hit chance of more than 20 before adding them, the exploiters seem to win out If you have a critical hit chance of exactly 20 before adding them, then both consoles will boost your damage by the exact same amount No matter what your base severity was before you added them. No matter which number combination I have tried, this is holding true. Mathematically something I said three months ago seems to now hold water, if you have over 20 critH, the tier 2 consoles will always be better. Please mathematically prove me wrong, if you can. because I am unable to produce a result mathematically thus far that disproves the below theory. If CritH > 20 then Exploiters If CritH < 20 then Locators. If CritH = 20 then either will produce identical results Now im curious if this only holds true on five tac console ships or if its different for four or even three console ships.

Brilliant stuff! Thank you!

One question, though. How does the CrtH/CrtD modifiers of the weps themselves factor into all of this? Should I just add/subtract them from the '20'?
Ensign
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 6
# 13
02-25-2014, 05:30 AM
Ah, it hadn't occurred to me to think that the ratio is not necessarily constant. Apologies for the error then.

Am experimenting with a spreadsheet, and as crth increases the ratio does change. In fact I'm starting to run into weird instances where marginal damage with additional crth is actually negative!

Summarising this into a quick and easy rule will be the hard part, though.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,714
# 14
02-25-2014, 07:00 AM
You know what I would appreciate? If a dev stepped in an gave us a definitive answer of sorts. So many rumors; so much speculation. It would really mean a lot to me (and to others, I think) if we could get the final formula on this.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,039
# 15
02-25-2014, 07:58 AM
Thissler did a formula once, that I've never been able to find again...but I know it's there...I'm not dreaming, man - I'm not dreaming...
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Captain
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,308
# 16
02-25-2014, 08:14 AM
Quote:
 Originally Posted by meimeitoo Brilliant stuff! Thank you! One question, though. How does the CrtH/CrtD modifiers of the weps themselves factor into all of this? Should I just add/subtract them from the '20'?
My results are based on an actual critH of 20, modifiers didnt matter as that was what the ship had. (you could assume it had 12 base, 9 points EWS, and 3xCritH weapons i guess?)

It was just an experiment in math based on another thread, if im honest. It just happened to bear interesting fruit that I see is being confirmed by others in the thread.

Changing ratios, whod have thought eh? I suppose it has something to do with the fact we are in an era where we are no long bound to ships that have 15 crit and 80 severity, we just never knew until we did the math later with 30 critH and 140 severity. We had never been here so we assumed the old tools and rules stayed static.

There was a post shortly after my OP that seems to explain "what to do" when you are close to 20, but not over when you start adding them, too.
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Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 297
# 17
02-25-2014, 09:15 AM
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,590
# 18
02-25-2014, 10:08 AM
Quote:
 Originally Posted by abcde123123 n = number of shots d = damage per shot crth = 0.22 crtd = 180 n * crth * d * crtd + n * (1 - crth) * d => n * d * ( crth * crtd + (1 - crth) ) assuming n, d are scalar constants the damage function becomes crth * crtd + (1 - crth) => (crth : x, crtd : y) => Our final function of damage over crth and crtd dmg = x * y + (1-x)
You made a mistake. The expected damage is

n * crth * d * (1 + crtd) + n * (1 - crth) * d.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,101
# 19
02-25-2014, 10:13 AM
I like buffing both, I am using 3 exploiters and 2 locaters on my scim, current crit rate is 22.9% and severity is 121.8%
Tala -KDF Tac- House of Beautiful Orions
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 169
# 20
02-25-2014, 10:37 AM
Quote:
 Originally Posted by rylanadionysis If CritH > 20 then Exploiters If CritH < 20 then Locators. If CritH = 20 then either will produce identical results
This is incorrect. As counterexamples, consider a build where you have CritH of 30 and CritD of 200.
Then CritH > 20, but you're better off using Locators.

Or, consider having CritH of 19, and CritD of 50. Then CritH < 20, but you should go with Expoliters.

Finally, consider CritH = 20. Then if your CritD is higher than 140 you should go for Locators. If it is lower than 60, you should go for Exploiters. Between these two values, you should actually go for a combination of both. These numbers assume 5 tac consoles.

I will add, that I didn't need some excel spreadsheet, or some online calculator to figure this out. I did these calculations in my head, and so can you. It is very simple:

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...1#post15345081

Last edited by cerealplayer; 02-25-2014 at 11:03 AM.

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