Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,425
# 11
03-03-2014, 07:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrathofachilles View Post
How so? escorts could equip these shields too, they would get a bonus to capacity and regeneration, and I have seen plenty an escort that is so fast that torps literally NEVER catch up to them. Actually... I hadn't considered that... we would need to do something about that... I mean, something needs to be done about that now with current mechanics, but these sheilds could be massively op on such an escort, lol.
Just as an aside, in my personal experience, although torps can be outrun visually, their damage is applied at some point during the torp flight. So I don't think outrunning a torp is actually possible.
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Ishmael@scurry5: A Nibbling Sci
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Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 802
# 12
03-03-2014, 09:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by scurry5 View Post
Just as an aside, in my personal experience, although torps can be outrun visually, their damage is applied at some point during the torp flight. So I don't think outrunning a torp is actually possible.
You may be correct, but I know that heavy plasma torps will eventually disintegrate without doing any damage to the target (seen this happen in 1v1's with escorts when i was flying a carrier using elite scorpion fighters) and I have seen torp spreads chase after someone for a while and then vaporize without ever touching the target, so I don't think it's just the visual, but then I didn't go combing through my combat log trying to chase down whether that spread did or did not hit them at some point... so I can't say for sure.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,648
# 13
03-03-2014, 10:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrathofachilles View Post
Well, I think it might more depend on how bonus/innate bleed interacts with a resilient shield... would a resilient shield end up with 25% bleed because the 5% getting through instead of 10% getting through or... yeah.

I am absolutely fine with torps doing 100% more damage to these shields, especially considering all the bonuses these shields would provide, but we need to pay close attention to this bleed issue, there's already so much shield bypass in the game that we must take care not to let that run away with itself.
The 100% would be a case of them going from 25% to 50% damage (50% is 100% more than 25%)...not a case of them doing 100% more in the sense many folks might think. It would just be that 25% to 50% thing...

With resilient shields, well...here - let's look at Trans vs. both...

Standard penetration resistance is 90%. Trans have 40% increased, meaning we're looking at the penetration resistance being 60% of 90%...which gives us 54% resistance or 46% damage penetrating instead of 10%.

Resilient penetration resistance is 95%. So 60% of 95% would be 57% resistance or 43% damage penetrating instead of 5%.

Another thing to keep in mind with resilient shields is that 5% absorption. With energy attacks, that 5% is absorbed and disappears into the ether - it's magically gone. With kinetic attacks (torps/mines), that 5% is actually absorbed by the shields.

Energy attack vs. standard shields: 90% to shields, 10% to hull.
Energy attack vs. resilient shields: 90% to shields, 5% to hull, 5% to power the servers - it's magically gone.

Kinetic attack vs. standard shields: 90% to shields, 10% to hull.
Kinetic attack vs. resilient shields: 95% to shields, 5% to hull.

But again, the shields have the innate 75% reduction...so that 5% is pretty meh...

So if you were looking at it taking 50% increased bleed as a resilient...50% of 95% would be 47.5% penetration resistance meaning 52.5% would penetrate instead of 5% (and as opposed to 55% for the non-resilient shield)...


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Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 802
# 14
03-03-2014, 10:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
*snip*
Well if that's how it works, it seems fine, especially since transphasics have pretty low damage in general. I was just concerned about making resilient the entirely too obvious choice for this mode/type of shield. It seems to me these shields would just help balance things so that torps and mines are relevant. And obviously one would not HAVE to use this mode/type of shield, so it wouldn't be forcing the change on people.

Though the 50% bleed may be excessive in practice... hard for me to know for sure without some testing. perhaps 25% with the technical double damage of torps to shields would be less of an issue. I don't want these shields to be a power creep, I want them to have reasonable advantages and disadvantages while also not having some obvious exploity kill ships right through their shields mechanic... nothing is more annoying to me than the "shields? what shields? muahaha!" mechanics that have been creeping in everywhere.

I specifically was going for the bleed mechanic because I seem to recall hearing or reading (though it may have been fan fic or producer/director/cast speculation) that the difference between the hull tight shields and the bubble shields was that the advantage of hull tight was that they were more regenerative/higher capacity/tougher but that any damage that bleed through hit the hull harder because there was not much distance between the shield and the hull. E.G. an explosion 2 feet from your hull is gonna hit harder/more concentrated than an explosion 20 feet away. I didn't want to give the shields an all round higher bleed because dual heavy cannon escorts would just blow through everything (as per usual) and I specifically wanted these shields to encourage the use of torps/mines.

Anywho, the final specs on them could probably only be worked out by getting a rough idea onto the field for testing and tweaking.
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