Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,553
# 481
03-07-2014, 12:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kortaag View Post
Woah tiger..

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/dreadnaught?s=t

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/battleship?s=t

A dreadnaught is a type of battleship which happens to be a warship. And it will never be a proper one without a lt cmdr tac station. Don't blame the overwhelming demand for it, blame cryptic for 1 labeling it a dreadnaught (more of a heavy cruiser) and not giving it the strong arm a dreadnaught deserves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by caasicam View Post
Really would have made things easier if Cryptic had put all Tac-heavy cruisers (Or all ships claiming to be damage-oriented tanks) into a single classification. Though I don't know if I could reconcile the Galaxy-X's array of giant weapons with Heavy Cruisers such as the Cheyenne or Excelsior.

Either way, the Dreadnought label does seem fitting for this game, and how ships are classified here. So I'd certainly like it to see this ship get more of a reason to have this title.
Quote:
Originally Posted by abystander0 View Post
I said it before, that it was a bad idea for Cryptic to attach dreadnaught to this ship.

Yes, a dreadnaught is another name for battleship for the rest of us. Cryptic for some reason thought it was just a cool name to slap on a ship that isn't one.
Just gonna throw this out there:

Cryptic REFUSES to place the Battleship title on ANY playable ship. The few ships that have claim to that title are either:

1) Not playable (Jem'hadar Battleship, Typhoon-class anyone?) or

2) Have their name changed for the playable versions (Bulwark, D'Deridex (admittedly the NPC ones were changed with the release of LoR though), the MU battleships, Vo'quv etc).

I don't really get it. But hey, it's up to them XD.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
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Captain
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 686
# 482
03-07-2014, 12:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by captaind3 View Post
If that was the case then I can appreciate the reasoning to an extent, and also the secrecy. But I can't get past the dreadnaught designation, the tactical focus, but without the tactical seating.

I can understand the standard Assault Cruiser getting the Lt-ens tac seating. It fits perfectly with original design. It's branching. The Assault Cruiser is a cruiser with engineer focused seating. It's tactical because it has two Tac boffs on deck, but not incredibly powerful ones. The Star Cruiser has two science boff seats but not incredibly powerful ones. These are ships that have a primary and a light flavor of a secondary skill set. That's fine, Science ships and escorts have the exact same variation. You can get an engineer flavor patrol escort or a science flavored advanced escort. A tactical flavored Recon Science vessel, or an engineer style Deep Space science vessel.

That's fine and it all makes sense.

I think the Galaxy-R is attempting to stay in the same design philosophy as the long range retrofit, the Voyager-R with its ablative hull armor, which has 3 science boffs. But low level science abilities are more useful in general. And don't have as much overlap. The Defiant-R is the same with three tactical boffs. That's how they've set up the TNG era "hero" ships.

But the Dreadnaught is a different animal. There isn't actually a parallel in the other classes it's a unique ship. That said, it could probably parallel with the Advanced Research Retrofit, the Nebula, which is a science ship with a LtCdr engineer slot, a commander science, an ens science, a Lt tac and a Lt Universal. That's an incredible cruiser science hybrid right there. It's rather sad that the equivalent of that is the layout what the Avenger got. Heck an ens engineer-commander engineer with a Lt Tac and an Lt Universal would've worked out better than the current one. It's not really an update to current standards.

Giving it the Avenger's boff layout wouldn't have made them identical. The Avenger has higher mobility less tankiness in the ship's base stats and there would be a difference between five cannons vs the Phaser lance. Actually just take off the dual cannon ability for the G-X and they're different.




Terrifying thing. I did 30k crit with a BO3 on a Dual Beam Bank three mk XI phaser relays (one purple two blue). I'm not even kidding.

The Lance should consistently outperform a BO3 otherwise what's the point.
The Kumari wing cannons do 30k crits not including the R-Type platforms output. And with slight modifications they could be turned INTO a lance weapon for the dreadnought.

Check out my post here.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,043
# 483
03-07-2014, 12:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by projectfrontier View Post
The Kumari wing cannons do 30k crits not including the R-Type platforms output. And with slight modifications they could be turned INTO a lance weapon for the dreadnought.

Check out my post here.
I've never actually paid attention to the Kumari in action, so I'll have to look it up before I respond.

That said, along the lines of adapting existing technology and programming, what do you think of the idea of saucer separation altering the boff seating like with the Dyson Science destroyers?
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Community Manager
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 638
# 484
03-07-2014, 05:12 PM
Updated the OP Blog.

The 2 Piece Console Set Bonus grants a +2 Turn rate, not the previously mentioned +1

~CaptainSmirk
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Career Officer
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,361
# 485
03-07-2014, 05:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwecaptainsmirk View Post
Updated the OP Blog.

The 2 Piece Console Set Bonus grants a +2 Turn rate, not the previously mentioned +1

~CaptainSmirk
Sweet. Thanks. I was hoping the blog was wrong when I found in game it actually gave +2.

Edit: "Details are subject to change." I guess so, huh? lol.
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Last edited by monkeybone13; 03-07-2014 at 05:17 PM.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,494
# 486
03-07-2014, 05:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwecaptainsmirk View Post
Updated the OP Blog.

The 2 Piece Console Set Bonus grants a +2 Turn rate, not the previously mentioned +1

~CaptainSmirk
Well now....that's interesting. That will put the turn rate in the Excelsior range, a turn rate I found that fits me perfectly. May need to take another look at the Venture while it's on sale.

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Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 367
# 487
03-07-2014, 10:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by captaind3 View Post
That's the point of debate and discussion. I feel that everyone agrees with you all the time either you're stating something obvious (the sky on a clear day on Earth is blue) or completely meaningless.
Indeed


Quote:
Even with EPS consoles recovering the drain between shots isn't gonna help much since power from beams doesn't really replenish until the weapon stops firing. If you fire the lance at 125 in that model it would be 125, 115, 105, 95, 85. I suppose that's workable especially if the first shot crushes the shields.
That was just an example of mitigation (and not a great one, I admit). To completely overcome the heavy power drain, you would need something like the plasmotic leach, emergency power to weapons, Aux2batt, or the Marion duty officer that mitigates weapon drain on directed energy modulation.

With the first model, if power starts at 125, then each shot would drain 25 power (being one fifth of 125), thus putting you at zero at the end of the cycle. Each shot fired in the cycle, would be independent of the other as far as hit, damage, crit, and crit damage calculation is concerned. Power management would be essential to keep the weapon's damage from dropping off too steeply. That includes not firing other energy weapons. Damage for each shot is based off what your power was at the start of the cycle (here that is 125).

The second model would work similar, but because your damage and energy drain are static (keep the drain at 50 for example), you would need to keep your weapon power from hitting zero to maintain fire (5 shots max). Here also, hit, damage, crit, crit damage is calculated separately for each shot.

The first model is more flexible, but would have lower damage per shot than the second model, which has higher damage but the potential to not be able to continue fire due to lack of weapon power. Both could lock you out of firing other weapons, or perhaps just energy weapons.
I am not certain what a fair cooldown (if one is needed) would be good, but I was thinking somewhere in the neighborhood of thirty to forty seconds.

In this respect, heavy engineering capability becomes an asset.


Also........warp 13 plz.

Quote:
But the Prometheus is in full production now. And according to the ENT episode Azati Prime it was still operational in the 25th century.
Oh yes, I had forgotten about Prometheus. Good point. I loathed Voyager, and tend to forget things that happened in it.


Quote:
My point wasn't that it was optimal, but that all Starfleet vessels can serve as science vessels as that's what it means to be a Starfleet vessel.


I disagree, sure you can build four five small fast ships like the Defiant with the resources that it takes to build a single Galaxy class, but I don't think that it is more resource, energy, or time efficient to dismantle a Galaxy class and repurpose the materials into a new ship versus modding a Galaxy with a third nacelle and a large heavy weapon. And probably new shields (a 1.1 shield modifier that's it?).
Having multiple ships for the same cost of having one big one is more efficient for Starfleet from the standpoint that it usually finds itself short of available starships in critical situation. Having a big expensive ship in the wrong place at the wrong time effectively renders that ship meaningless.

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I consulted the wik on this one, for a historic perspective.

The dreadnought was the predominant type of battleship in the early 20th century. The first of the kind, the Royal Navy's Dreadnought, made such a strong impression on people's minds when it was launched in 1906 that similar battleships built subsequently were referred to generically as "dreadnoughts", and earlier battleships became known as pre-dreadnoughts. The Dreadnought's design had two revolutionary features: an "all-big-gun" armament scheme, with an unprecedented number of heavy-calibre guns, and steam turbine propulsion.[a] As dreadnoughts became a crucial symbol of national power, the arrival of these new warships renewed the naval arms race between the United Kingdom and Germany. Dreadnought races sprang up around the world, including in South America, lasting up to the beginning of World War I.

Now while the Federation isn't the type of power to start an arms race with her competitors the Federation is also not the type of power that's going to simply sit back and be outgunned. We don't send Starfleet officers to die after all. Starfleet's purpose is exploration, but due to the fact that they are the ones out there on the frontier at the borders, coming into contact with hostiles first, their other primary purpose is to defend the Federation. I'm like Teddy, "Speak softly and carry a big stick."
Yes, and the same problems with that would happen here too. Whether or not Starfleet would want to start an arms race wouldn't matter. One would happen anyway, as the Klingon Empire, the Dominion, Romulans (though as of now, they have the Scimitar), or anyone else with the ability to maintain a fleet would see that as a threat, and begin their own super heavy construction, just like in your example. Even though they are at war, the Klingon Empire is currently using pretty standard weapons and tactics. With an arms race, you would see more heavy batlecruisers, and new battleships. (Not this silly "the KDF makes us no money so they don't get anything" mentality Cryptic has, which is a separate discussion.)

Starfleet, and the Federation at large, wants to avoid the appearance of being an expansionist military power. It's part of why there was so much flak over calling the Defiant an escort. With something like a dreadnaught, the problem is exacerbated. The Federation doesn't need a symbol of pride or national power.


Quote:
You see it automatically as a terror weapon. I see it as a stand off weapon. Strategic deterrence. We are the Federation and we're not gonna launch biogenic weapons (barring Sisko but he was trying to prove a damn point), we don't touch thalaron weaponry at all, nor will we use trilithium torpedoes on your sun, or isolytic subspace weaponry. But don't get us wrong, we can build big ships, with big guns, that you will lose to.

I'm not sure where I stand on a Dreadnaught with a cloak though. That said for canon's sake the cloak should be integrated. Just saying. I'm for damn sure not a Pressman Starfleet officer though.
The temptation to use such a weapon would be too great for some officers not to use it. "If you have a 'big stick' you should use it". Remember Benjamin Maxwell from TNG: The wounded? Imagine him with a Galaxy-X. People being what they are, he wouldn't be an isolated case of hate or anger taking the helm.

Also, for not being a battleship, the Pheonix certainly did number on the Cardassians.

You don't need super weapons for strategic deterence, they certainly help, but they are not necessary. What they do is make everyone very nervous, and become a trap, that snares powers in an arms race.

As for the cloak, I just give it a pass, since I consider the Galaxy-X to be a fish out of water.

Quote:
That's fair enough, it's not clear cut enough that intelligent people can't come down on different sides of it. That's why I hate temporal mechanics.
Which is why I enjoy discussions. Seeing other points of view can allow you to see a bigger picture, or what you have overlooked (like me and the Prometheus).

Temporal mechanics give me a headache.

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Well seeing as how it has the largest gun in Federation history I can see why they'd come to that conclusion.

It was some of the same issues. Normal Rear Admiral Assault Cruisers have the same LT-Ens Tac setup, but the ship is restricted to beams and you can't use the strongest beam skills with that set up. And it had reached a point where the ship that was supposed to be the tank couldn't draw enough aggro to actually tank. The argument for the refit was that it should be more tactically capable. Which ultimately mercifully happened and I love it.
It's more of a "one gun wonder" in my view, think of it as a really large gunboat with a really large gun. Siege ship, gun boat, or maybe even monitor might have been a better term. It's a 25th century artillery piece.


Quote:
8000 light years in diameter and only the Okudas and God knows how much volume. It isn't logical for the Federation to have left all their other borders unguarded to fight the Dominion. Even at Warp 9.99 it takes a year to cross the Federation. At the Enterprise-D's top speed Warp 9.6 that's something like 5 years.

The 2800 Dominion ships would've been enough to finish the war against the allies. I think that wasn't because Starfleet only has 5000 ships or so, but because they only had 2000 that they could get to the front. The Dominion War had a pretty healthy build up. Starfleet had a few years to recall ships from the frontier and reorganize their fleet deployment to get people to the areas around the Cardassian border. That was accelerated with the war with the Klingons. But that doesn't mean they redeployed the entire fleet. The Dominion was going to win with those ships because of concentration of force.

Starfleet and the Klingons had also ground their edges against each other as well, so they went into the Dominion War with less ships then they had to begin with.


There was a short thread on this subject elsewhere.
http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=232237

I will say that in The Motion Picture, the 1701 was the only ship that could intercept V'ger, but that was on short notice for something coming straight at Earth at high speed. The idea seems to be that in peacetime most Starfleet vessels are out exploring the unknown and patrolling the borders and that only in times of war do they come together. On the same note the NCC-2000 was still 15 years away, so I think Starfleet back then was much smaller as was the Federation. And the 1701 was 25 years old as it was. Starfleet shipbuilding was either far less capable (easy as replicators hadn't been invented yet) and/or they focused on fewer high quality ships. Something that ramped up in the next century.

Star Trek is based on the Horatio Hornblower age of discovery ideal that one ship will be out at the edge of the unknown and be the sole representative of their nation there. But for a war that depiction must shift so you get to see how big this thing really is. Patrolling Federation space must be a truly titanic task.

If we're gonna look at one thing we should look at this, I think this is the greatest indicator.

The Excelsior class is still in service. The Excelsior is NCC-2000. Assuming that most ships in that era have relatively long service lives, if you want to say that most starships after her stayed in service to the Dominion war era, then we have the Prometheus whose plaque and MSD says NX-74913. That's what? 72913 Starfleet vessels built in a century.



This is also from show runner Ronald B. Moore in 1997.
Size Edit

Regarding the quantity of starships Starfleet had in use in the late 2370s, Moore commented, "I wouldn't be surprised if Starfleet had 30,000 ships or so." (AOL chat, 1997) This was based on reasoning that the USS Hood has a registry of NCC-42296 while the USS Voyager is NCC-74656.

During Operation Return, Starfleet attempted to prevent the Dominion from bringing down the minefield, which would have allowed 2800 ships to come through the wormhole, which would allow for a Dominion total victory. Meaning that since, at that time of the war, the forces of both sides were about equal, the true size of the Dominion forces was much larger than Starfleet.

Doctor Zimmerman claimed that there were 675 EMH Mark I instances active in Starfleet before they were taken off duty during the Dominion War. (VOY: "Life Line")


Here's the link to Mem-Alpha's archive.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Memo...ore/ron065.txt
That's quite a bit of really good information when you take a look at that archive. I had no idea that existed.

For the registry numbers issue, I think that there was no effort to catalog all the canon named ships, so there was no official guide for people to look at that had ship names and registry number. There were a couple of instances where you had ship names showing up in other episodes with different registry numbers, as I recall. The lack of a database for ship names and registry numbers made it hard to designate new ships in later stories. By inflating registry numbers you can dodge that point somewhat. So rather than Starfleet having that many hulls according to registry numbers, I would chalk that up to continuity problems. In universe it could easily be a matter of cancelling construction plans for ships already slated for construction, which would have a designation number. Any new constructions after that would have higher registry numbers. So in theory you could have any number of unrealized projects that eat up those registry numbers, but not actual starships.

But as stated in that information there was never a hard number given, so within reason, any number could be valid.

To me, if they had that many ships available, they would have been pulling everything they could and sending them at max speed to throw into battle. To have ships at your borders would be pointless if they lost the war.

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I suppose I understand that. I'm certainly not one of the people doing the tier 5 Connie thing (seems weird to me).

But you have to admit, as it is now, it can't even do what it did in the show.
That's what annoys me the most. It can't do the one thing that made it awesome in the brief time we saw it.



Quote:
Man that would be such a dream. Especially to fly into a battle against a bunch of Orion ships, they see the registry and turn around and haul tail. No shots fired.
No kidding, there is so much unrealized potential outside of shooting stuff. In your example after the enemy scatters and leaves, the mission could change to rescue, repair, or resupply or something.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,043
# 488
03-08-2014, 07:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwecaptainsmirk View Post
Updated the OP Blog.

The 2 Piece Console Set Bonus grants a +2 Turn rate, not the previously mentioned +1

~CaptainSmirk
That's a fair sight right there. Certainly more reason to use that set than more tank.


Quote:
Originally Posted by abystander0 View Post

That was just an example of mitigation (and not a great one, I admit). To completely overcome the heavy power drain, you would need something like the plasmotic leach, emergency power to weapons, Aux2batt, or the Marion duty officer that mitigates weapon drain on directed energy modulation.
While that's great if you're running a beam boat with 8 beams and want to spam FAW, is that really optimal to need that to use the lance effectively? If we have it at 125 that should be a good ground. Although adding all that is terrifying.

Quote:
With the first model, if power starts at 125, then each shot would drain 25 power (being one fifth of 125), thus putting you at zero at the end of the cycle. Each shot fired in the cycle, would be independent of the other as far as hit, damage, crit, and crit damage calculation is concerned. Power management would be essential to keep the weapon's damage from dropping off too steeply. That includes not firing other energy weapons. Damage for each shot is based off what your power was at the start of the cycle (here that is 125).

The second model would work similar, but because your damage and energy drain are static (keep the drain at 50 for example), you would need to keep your weapon power from hitting zero to maintain fire (5 shots max). Here also, hit, damage, crit, crit damage is calculated separately for each shot.

The first model is more flexible, but would have lower damage per shot than the second model, which has higher damage but the potential to not be able to continue fire due to lack of weapon power. Both could lock you out of firing other weapons, or perhaps just energy weapons.
I am not certain what a fair cooldown (if one is needed) would be good, but I was thinking somewhere in the neighborhood of thirty to forty seconds.

In this respect, heavy engineering capability becomes an asset.
I would accept shutting down other energy weapons to keep the lance from having so much power drop off that the shots become less effective over time. As I see it the narrow firing arc is a trade off for the power.

As for the cooldown if we want this to be the primary weapon then a firing time under a minute has to be the case, I'd say 45 seconds is the sweet spot. That prevents spam but is fast enough that you can set up your strategy around it. Especially if you're not going to give the ship a battle cloak. There's no escape factor, the cloak is purely an opening ambush, so be continuously surprise attacked isn't a factor.

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Also........warp 13 plz.
I'm not gonna lie, Innate warp 13= me using the Adapted MACO set

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Oh yes, I had forgotten about Prometheus. Good point. I loathed Voyager, and tend to forget things that happened in it.
The Defiant was also in production by the end of the series.

Voyager, Voyager, Voyager. I understand the complaints, but Voyager did have some great high points, and no I'm not talking about the valleys of Seven of Nine's dermoplast body suit.

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Having multiple ships for the same cost of having one big one is more efficient for Starfleet from the standpoint that it usually finds itself short of available starships in critical situation. Having a big expensive ship in the wrong place at the wrong time effectively renders that ship meaningless.
I'm not saying they wouldn't build multiple smaller ships for the cost of one, I'm saying that it's not more efficient to dismantle and repurpose the parts from a perfectly viable ship to build more from it. Especially since generally speaking, a Galaxy-X is equal in deterrent force to a few Defiants. That's Starfleet's thinking because there have been plenty of times when they've sent the Enterprise to an area to quell people getting rowdy.

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Yes, and the same problems with that would happen here too. Whether or not Starfleet would want to start an arms race wouldn't matter. One would happen anyway, as the Klingon Empire, the Dominion, Romulans (though as of now, they have the Scimitar), or anyone else with the ability to maintain a fleet would see that as a threat, and begin their own super heavy construction, just like in your example. Even though they are at war, the Klingon Empire is currently using pretty standard weapons and tactics. With an arms race, you would see more heavy batlecruisers, and new battleships. (Not this silly "the KDF makes us no money so they don't get anything" mentality Cryptic has, which is a separate discussion.)
The issue is there already is one in effect. The Romulans started it with he Scimitar. They wouldn't start the arms race, but they're not going to sit back and lose one either. We've got running up on a trillion citizens to protect.

And you're right the Avenger and the Mogh are certainly prime examples.

Honestly I'm wondering what a Klingon counter to the G-X would look like. Honestly that's what I'd say the Bortas is.


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Starfleet, and the Federation at large, wants to avoid the appearance of being an expansionist military power. It's part of why there was so much flak over calling the Defiant an escort. With something like a dreadnaught, the problem is exacerbated. The Federation doesn't need a symbol of pride or national power.
I'm not saying you're incorrect, but nor does the Federation want to appear weak either.

That said, the Enterprise itself, is a symbol of pride and national power, that's what a Flagship is all about. Look at this great thing that we built. That said I do agree that having one in every player's garage is clearly an acceptable break from reality, as Starfleet certainly wouldn't build an entire fleet of them, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't build a few. One in each major fleet or maybe even wing.


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The temptation to use such a weapon would be too great for some officers not to use it. "If you have a 'big stick' you should use it". Remember Benjamin Maxwell from TNG: The wounded? Imagine him with a Galaxy-X. People being what they are, he wouldn't be an isolated case of hate or anger taking the helm.

Also, for not being a battleship, the Pheonix certainly did number on the Cardassians.

You don't need super weapons for strategic deterence, they certainly help, but they are not necessary. What they do is make everyone very nervous, and become a trap, that snares powers in an arms race.
I feel you've nullified your own point here. Every single Federation Starship, is a weapon of mass destruction, every phaser a risk. They've been telling us this since the Original Series, where we had Captain Kirk himself threatening to glass the surface of a planet, where a Captain looking for the fountain of youth gave phasers to communists with longevity.

Look at what Thomas Riker was able to accomplish with a hijacked Defiant.

Any ship can be abused.

But as much as Starfleet is an exploratory agency, they're also the first and last line of defense. They've got to be ready. Worf could kill Jm'pok next year and we'll be able to restore the Khitomer Accords, but we still need to be able to take on the Borg and the Iconians. And Starfleet will still explore. I loved that blog that showed Operation Return in operation with a Starfleet Science ship out at the border of the Delta Quadrant. We can do both.


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As for the cloak, I just give it a pass, since I consider the Galaxy-X to be a fish out of water.
It's an outlier.

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Which is why I enjoy discussions. Seeing other points of view can allow you to see a bigger picture, or what you have overlooked (like me and the Prometheus).

Temporal mechanics give me a headache.
Absolutely.

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It's more of a "one gun wonder" in my view, think of it as a really large gunboat with a really large gun. Siege ship, gun boat, or maybe even monitor might have been a better term. It's a 25th century artillery piece.
Siege Ship works for me too. Gun boat rubs against my Navy sensibilities.


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That's quite a bit of really good information when you take a look at that archive. I had no idea that existed.
I love Memory Alpha.

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For the registry numbers issue, I think that there was no effort to catalog all the canon named ships, so there was no official guide for people to look at that had ship names and registry number. There were a couple of instances where you had ship names showing up in other episodes with different registry numbers, as I recall. The lack of a database for ship names and registry numbers made it hard to designate new ships in later stories. By inflating registry numbers you can dodge that point somewhat. So rather than Starfleet having that many hulls according to registry numbers, I would chalk that up to continuity problems. In universe it could easily be a matter of cancelling construction plans for ships already slated for construction, which would have a designation number. Any new constructions after that would have higher registry numbers. So in theory you could have any number of unrealized projects that eat up those registry numbers, but not actual starships.

But as stated in that information there was never a hard number given, so within reason, any number could be valid.
The Prometheus that I cited is an example of messed up registry numbers. The one on the hull is lower than the one the MSD and the Plaque. It was an issue of a placeholder number vs the actual one. Mike Okuda realized it was too low (the one on the hull is lower than Voyagers), the MSD is the accurate one.

While that's true, I look at them as construction registry numbers, I don't think Starfleet has anywhere near that many cancelled constructions. They have a truly stupendous amount of space to cover just for the Federation and then they're exploring well beyond their own borders. That requires a LOT of hardware.


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To me, if they had that many ships available, they would have been pulling everything they could and sending them at max speed to throw into battle. To have ships at your borders would be pointless if they lost the war.
No. The Federation has lots of friends, but also plenty of enemies. You can't just leave yourself open to attack from the Tzenkethi, the Romulans (before they entered the war), the Tholians, the So'na. If it takes a year to get any ship from one side of the Federation to the other you can't just leave one border open and assume that that's going to be fine. If you have the Dominion on one side, and there's a Borg incursion on the other, you have to already have forces in place to deal with that.

Starfleet learned that lesson well, the Borg incursion of 2367 took place when the Federation had a long period of peace (at least from major war) and their deep space programs were in full gear. They could only get 39 starships together to defend the capitol.

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That's what annoys me the most. It can't do the one thing that made it awesome in the brief time we saw it.



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No kidding, there is so much unrealized potential outside of shooting stuff. In your example after the enemy scatters and leaves, the mission could change to rescue, repair, or resupply or something.
OOOH OOOH OOH OOH (jumping up and down)

Then the rescue mission could turn into a medical ground mission like what was it? Cold Comfort? The Breen mission where you had to help with the medical triage unit and where you met Tran. But in this case it would be like an engine repair mission. Or you have to go hunt down the Orion ships so you can rescue the people they kidnapped into slavery.

The beauty being you wouldn't have the option to get that mission if you don't have the rep.

And I don't know about you, but I'm thinking about things like the Tau Dewa Patrol mission, so these things are still counting towards your percentage. The Tal Shiar mission leads to infiltrating a Tal Shiar base and stopping people from being brainwashed.

And here's another thing. You come across an Orion slaver or Nausicaan raider. Where's their since of self preservation? If they run and then you hunt them down, they know they can't win, so why wouldn't they accept arrest? Two years in a Federation rehab colony and they can be on their way. There are plenty of non warrior races that are good with going to prison versus dying for nothing.
Yes I support This

"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 31
# 489
03-08-2014, 02:04 PM
Not to be a nit picker but the dev Blog is wrong about this part

"firing a massive phaser beam out of the Spinal Phaser Lance, obliterating the KDF Vessel with one powerful shot, and speeding through the debris with 3 nacelles on its back. Such a strong scene has certainly remained one of the most memorable in all of TNG lore."



After re watching that episode it actually took 5 possibly 6 Shots to obliterate the KDF vessel


.... even though I don't agree with the Gal X being in the game since it was from a Hypothetical future and will most likely never exist, they should still get the facts straight
Star Trek has always been about the Federation, any other Factions are just recurring characters or special guest stars

Last edited by sin99; 03-08-2014 at 02:07 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,043
# 490
03-08-2014, 03:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sin99 View Post
Not to be a nit picker but the dev Blog is wrong about this part

"firing a massive phaser beam out of the Spinal Phaser Lance, obliterating the KDF Vessel with one powerful shot, and speeding through the debris with 3 nacelles on its back. Such a strong scene has certainly remained one of the most memorable in all of TNG lore."



After re watching that episode it actually took 5 possibly 6 Shots to obliterate the KDF vessel


.... even though I don't agree with the Gal X being in the game since it was from a Hypothetical future and will most likely never exist, they should still get the facts straight
You're not nitpicking on that, as it's been mentioned and discussed already. I counted five. I would actually love a five shot like that that fires under once a minute.

And just go back a few pages if you want to see the debate on whether an anti-time future ship should be in game. Keep in mind that we saw the Negh'var for the first time in that future as well. They should add the option to remove those under wing segments on the Negh'var on that note.

The same could be said of the Vesta.

The only future Federation starship that I never want to see again is the Enterprise-J. I personally hate it.
Yes I support This

"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
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