Career Officer
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 927
# 11
03-07-2014, 03:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bridgern View Post
Who the hell comes up with this decisions, seriously so than also remove the immunity to the phaser proc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucho80 View Post
Read alert! Incoming extra power creep! The weapons were already good, now they just got way better.
no they just got borderline op normally i support the moves they do but this move was a bonehead move its one of the dumbest thing ive have ever seen them do god men you do so well then you just screw the pooch i knew it was coming
look for me in game as "Admiral Quinn" yeah that admiral quinn..and while your at it get off muh station!!!
Cryptic Studios Team
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,656
# 12
03-07-2014, 03:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by whatinblueblazes View Post
As for the Elachi proc, I find that a little concerning. It's already one of the mightier weapons in PVP. That said, if you're going to remove proc lockouts, I would love it if you could look at the phaser proc as well. It needs some attention.
In our internal parsing, the removal of this lockout period affected most ships by a very small margin. We're talking DPS improvements of in the neighborhood of 2% tops. It had an obviously larger impact on ships that were using more of these weapons, as their opportunity to land the proc is increased by the number of these weapons they are firing within that previous lockout period. And these are also the ships were were attempting to address -- before this change, you were actually losing effectiveness by slotting multiple Elachi weapons, instead of using different weapons with Procs that did not share a lockout period.

Additionally, it's not accurate to compare the lockout period of an instant damage-amplifying effect like the Elachi proc, with a duration-based CC ability like a Phaser Proc.
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Cryptic - Staff Systems Designer
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 927
# 13
03-07-2014, 03:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
In our internal parsing, the removal of this lockout period affected most ships by a very small margin. We're talking DPS improvements of in the neighborhood of 2% tops. It had an obviously larger impact on ships that were using more of these weapons, as their opportunity to land the proc is increased by the number of these weapons they are firing within that previous lockout period. And these are also the ships were were attempting to address -- before this change, you were actually losing effectiveness by slotting multiple Elachi weapons, instead of using different weapons with Procs that did not share a lockout period.

Additionally, it's not accurate to compare the lockout period of an instant damage-amplifying effect like the Elachi proc, with a duration-based CC ability like a Phaser Proc.
well.......i guess you shut me up.......ty for the insight ....sorry for the flame bombs ...but one question.....what does god need with a starship?........no but seriously wont the prc land wayyyyyyy more with an escort firing on a cruiser ?? they already shred us now so wont this make it worse? i thought you were trying to get the whole really crazy dps stuff under control??
look for me in game as "Admiral Quinn" yeah that admiral quinn..and while your at it get off muh station!!!
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 775
# 14
03-07-2014, 03:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
In our internal parsing, the removal of this lockout period affected most ships by a very small margin. We're talking DPS improvements of in the neighborhood of 2% tops. It had an obviously larger impact on ships that were using more of these weapons, as their opportunity to land the proc is increased by the number of these weapons they are firing within that previous lockout period. And these are also the ships were were attempting to address -- before this change, you were actually losing effectiveness by slotting multiple Elachi weapons, instead of using different weapons with Procs that did not share a lockout period.

Additionally, it's not accurate to compare the lockout period of an instant damage-amplifying effect like the Elachi proc, with a duration-based CC ability like a Phaser Proc.
Did u tested the effect of tactical bfaw a2b crusiers with overcaped weapon enery using this in conjuntion with DEM3? Try with 3 o 4 of those using the elachi proc without lockdown.
John Sheridan@playhard88 - FED Tactical
Vin Naftero@playhard88 - FED Sciencie
K'tan@playhard88 - KDF Tactical
Argento@playhard88 - RRF Tactical (FED)

Last edited by playhard88; 03-07-2014 at 03:26 PM.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 197
# 15
03-07-2014, 03:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
In our internal parsing, the removal of this lockout period affected most ships by a very small margin. We're talking DPS improvements of in the neighborhood of 2% tops. It had an obviously larger impact on ships that were using more of these weapons, as their opportunity to land the proc is increased by the number of these weapons they are firing within that previous lockout period. And these are also the ships were were attempting to address -- before this change, you were actually losing effectiveness by slotting multiple Elachi weapons, instead of using different weapons with Procs that did not share a lockout period.

Additionally, it's not accurate to compare the lockout period of an instant damage-amplifying effect like the Elachi proc, with a duration-based CC ability like a Phaser Proc.
Thanks for the quick response and the insight, Bort. I greatly appreciate it. It makes sense that the proposed change would only lead to a modest overall DPS increase, given that the proc chance itself hasn't been modified.

May I ask if the internal testing looked at intense alpha strike scenarios as well, where shield penetration of any kind has a fairly decisive impact? Or would that all come out in the wash as well, so to speak?

I agree that the phaser proc and the elachi proc are apples and oranges, and perhaps this isn't the best time to discuss that proc. I just got a little excited by a proc revision. In the future, however, I hope that some of the less "desirable" weapons might have their procs reevaluated in general. I'm looking at you, tetryon, and phaser to a lesser extent.

EDIT: Just to qualify "desirable" a little, because I know that you are a man of science -- I do not personally have data to support my claim that tetryon and phaser rank among the less sought-after energy types. I have only personal experience (of limited value as evidence due to sample size), and the observation that phaser, tetryon, and say nanite disruptor weapons tend to be less favored in discussions on the forums and in-game.

Last edited by whatinblueblazes; 03-07-2014 at 03:41 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,046
# 16
03-07-2014, 04:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
In our internal parsing, the removal of this lockout period affected most ships by a very small margin. We're talking DPS improvements of in the neighborhood of 2% tops. It had an obviously larger impact on ships that were using more of these weapons, as their opportunity to land the proc is increased by the number of these weapons they are firing within that previous lockout period. And these are also the ships were were attempting to address -- before this change, you were actually losing effectiveness by slotting multiple Elachi weapons, instead of using different weapons with Procs that did not share a lockout period.

Additionally, it's not accurate to compare the lockout period of an instant damage-amplifying effect like the Elachi proc, with a duration-based CC ability like a Phaser Proc.
Have you evaluated the effects of an entire team stacking these weapons? Also, can you clarify something for me. Does the effect "Ignore 100% of targets' shields and 50% of targets' damage resistance" apply only to the first shot, or does it apply to the entire firing cycle that triggered the proc?

Last edited by frtoaster; 03-07-2014 at 04:30 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,046
# 17
03-07-2014, 04:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by whatinblueblazes View Post
EDIT: Just to qualify "desirable" a little, because I know that you are a man of science -- I do not personally have data to support my claim that tetryon and phaser rank among the less sought-after energy types. I have only personal experience (of limited value as evidence due to sample size), and the observation that phaser, tetryon, and say nanite disruptor weapons tend to be less favored in discussions on the forums and in-game.
Going by prices on the Exchange, I would say that it's true that tetryons and nanite disruptors are less favored, but it's definitely not true of phasers.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 162
# 18
03-07-2014, 04:35 PM
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 453
# 19
03-07-2014, 04:38 PM
I'm guessing you changed the ground elachi weapon proc too? MEH if you did.....
Commander
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 413
# 20
03-07-2014, 04:45 PM
I posted a bug report in the bug report thread, stating that my fleet credit duty officer isn't working. Please take a look at these threads:

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh....php?t=1044121

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh....php?t=1023611
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