Commander
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 350
# 31
03-07-2014, 09:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
First shot only.



Yes, the lockout period has been removed from the ground Proc as well.
Please take a look at the fleet credit consultant doff, mine is not working properly. I have a thread in bug reports, a thread in doffs, and a post in this thread. All have proof that it isn't working. Please review this.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,237
# 32
03-07-2014, 09:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by marc8219 View Post
I don't recall much if any complaints about elachi weapons not being effective enough, it shouldn't be changed. Stop making changes nobody is asking for and focus on bugs that have existed for a long time please.
I do agree with this. I see the weapons being used all the time in PvP and no one complained about them. Now phasers or tetryons, those need fixing.
Commander
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 338
# 33
03-07-2014, 10:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by overlapo View Post
So DHC are the bomb and turrets are worthless as far as Elachi bling goes.
I'd be interested in seeing how Elachi DHCs with multiple CrtD mods work out especially on a Romulan with lots of CrtH already



And while we're on the subject of improving underpowered sets can we have the Reman and Romulan Prototype sets looked at? Especially the shields that come with no resists at all and the deflectors and their 'interesting' skill bonses? With the change to the Solanae set bonus these sets which require weeks of rep grinding and dilithium are now way behind free gear from replaying the featured episode...

Last edited by no09dysonsphere; 03-07-2014 at 10:09 PM.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 96
Klingon Outfit Bug is not fixed I can't change non of 5 outfits (2 are payed) slots on both servers (holodeck & tribble) !!!!!

Am I only one that have that problem for last 3 yrs. ?
Is my Klingon toon something special ?
What should I or we do about it ?
In the beginning there was all and then become nothing


Last edited by zntech; 03-09-2014 at 10:53 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 11,946
# 35
03-07-2014, 10:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by overlapo View Post
So DHC are the bomb and turrets are worthless as far as Elachi bling goes.
Folks have said that since the beginning...Elachi Turrets are proof Cryptic has a sense of humor.
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,890
# 36
03-07-2014, 11:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nulonu View Post
I'm guessing you changed the ground elachi weapon proc too? MEH if you did.....
True, there is also that, it makes stacking the Elachi weapon very overpowered.

(Rest of the post directed at devs) Imagine 5x Elachi Pistol while under Rally Cry IV. The only class that could tank something like that would be a medic. Engineers will burn and Tactical officers will suffer majorly. If the shield bypass proc has no cooldown, then it needs to reduce the bypassing damage by 50% and lose the damage resistance decrease. The proc on Ground is 5%, which means 1 in every 20 shots will land the proc. Elachi Pistols fire once every half second, which means there will be a proc on average once every 10 seconds per player. That made the weapon useful on one or two people on a team, but it was partially balanced by that lockout period. A team of 5 using this weapon has a 22.6% chance of getting a proc every second. It takes between 3-11 of these procs to kill a target unbuffed. A team of five is going to meet that quota very quickly.

Then factor in the weapon secondary attacks. Many people in the Ground PvP community call these guns the "noob rifle" and the "noob pistol", The devs may or may not be aware, but there is a very good chance for a oneshot if the secondary attack procs while the player is using damage buffs. Most players don't use the weapon in a team setting because of the lockout period. It brought a semblance of balance to a potentially overpowered weapon proc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
In our internal parsing, the removal of this lockout period affected most ships by a very small margin. We're talking DPS improvements of in the neighborhood of 2% tops. It had an obviously larger impact on ships that were using more of these weapons, as their opportunity to land the proc is increased by the number of these weapons they are firing within that previous lockout period. And these are also the ships were were attempting to address -- before this change, you were actually losing effectiveness by slotting multiple Elachi weapons, instead of using different weapons with Procs that did not share a lockout period.

Additionally, it's not accurate to compare the lockout period of an instant damage-amplifying effect like the Elachi proc, with a duration-based CC ability like a Phaser Proc.
I'm guessing that test was against something like a Tactical Cube. Have you tested this weapon in a PvP team setting against science vessels? Even now, the proc is devastating to the Science Vessel's low hull. You have Romulans putting out 6,000 damage per shot critical hits with 270 degree arc beam arrays (oh I wish that were an exaggeration, but it isn't). You are giving players a weapon capable of killing 38,000 hull science vessels in as little as seven beam array shots. This change is insane, damage is already out of control, and this only makes it that much worse to be flying anything without a cloaking device.
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Real join date: March 2012
PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
Commander
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 338
# 37
03-08-2014, 05:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by majortiraomega View Post
I'm guessing that test was against something like a Tactical Cube. Have you tested this weapon in a PvP team setting against science vessels? Even now, the proc is devastating to the Science Vessel's low hull. You have Romulans putting out 6,000 damage per shot critical hits with 270 degree arc beam arrays (oh I wish that were an exaggeration, but it isn't). You are giving players a weapon capable of killing 38,000 hull science vessels in as little as seven beam array shots. This change is insane, damage is already out of control, and this only makes it that much worse to be flying anything without a cloaking device.
I'd be concerned but the chances of a 2.5% chance proc landing 7 times in a row is astronomical, and with the changes that made it possible to chain engineering team every 15 teams that's not going to happen except to the most inattentive (and unlucky) pilot.
Ensign
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 12
# 38
03-08-2014, 09:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by no09dysonsphere View Post
I'd be concerned but the chances of a 2.5% chance proc landing 7 times in a row is astronomical, and with the changes that made it possible to chain engineering team every 15 teams that's not going to happen except to the most inattentive (and unlucky) pilot.
The chance per cycle increased well beyond before. This is a really bad change. The original maximum per minute was about 12 regardless of if you had one or if you had 8. Now the chance balloons to around 100 depending on loadout. Yes the odds are really low to get 7 directly in a row. But it can happen. And you are most assuredly in a one minute span with no lockouts going to hit that number.

The team one I wanted to wait and see, and it's really not horrible. This I can tell already their math is off and they included shield damage in the parses. No way you did a run and got only 2% extra on hull when the things freaking do a 50% debuff when they proc. At minimum that would get you closer to 5%. It'd also take the time to kill down intensely since the damage is piercing the shield and you have vastly more chances to proc.

Again you went from a maximum of 1 every time to a maximum of 8 if you so chose...

Then Bortius is gonna say the Phaser lockout is fine when that is essentially the same exact thing but the lockout was 8s, it wasn't really easily boost-able, and subsystem repair effected it.
Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 4,110
# 39
03-08-2014, 09:45 AM
Will this have any affect on NPC weapons, and therefore mission difficulty?

Personally I'd leave this one alone, and address phasers and tetryons like people have been asking

Last edited by ursusmorologus; 03-08-2014 at 02:51 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,890
# 40
03-08-2014, 10:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by no09dysonsphere View Post
I'd be concerned but the chances of a 2.5% chance proc landing 7 times in a row is astronomical, and with the changes that made it possible to chain engineering team every 15 teams that's not going to happen except to the most inattentive (and unlucky) pilot.
A team of 5 using the 8x Elachi Weapon has a 69.1745% chance per fire cycle to land at least one Elachi proc. There is a 0.4375% chance per fire cycle of getting at 7 procs, assuming the Elachi weapon only procs once per weapon per fire cycle. Just under one half of a percentage isn't astronomical when you consider the fact that these weapons will be firing off constantly. Engineering Team and Auxiliary to Structural Integrity Field both have 15 second minimum coolowns. Within those 15 seconds, there is approximately a 6.5% chance that enough procs will land to kill the player through any amount of shields. To be honest, that is insanely high and the reason they implemented the 5 second proc lockout period. If this proc loses shield bypass lockout, then bypassing damage needs to be cut in half and the "ignores 50% of resistances" needs to be removed.
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Real join date: March 2012
PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
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