Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 556
# 21
03-08-2014, 08:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cliftona91 View Post
The thing about everyone saying "Go torpedo boat" with the T'varo is you are losing a 10% damage bonus when you stay under cloak compared to uncloaking and going guns blazing.
Citation please? Where does Cryptic say that?

You don't really stay under Cloak during attack runs. The wiki/tooltip(?) description says "When attacking while cloaked, the ships cloak will drop for a few seconds, leaving the ship momentarily exposed with the shields down." If you've done the T'varo or B'rel on an attack, you do come out of cloak while firing, which is especially obvious when you pull aggro.

Whether this behavior is different than pressing the Cloak/Decloak button in terms of mechanics, I don't know. I'm willing to read where they say it, though.

Even if I'm sacrificing damage, I still pull aggro off of Scimitars even with my n00b Photon Torpedo setup, so maybe I don't want even more spike in PVE.
Nessia (KDF Sci), IKS Aluminum Falcon (B'rel Retrofit)

Swimsuits: People will pay almost any price to let their characters show a little skin... any price except joining the KDF.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1,185
# 22
03-08-2014, 10:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by misterde3 View Post
There are two angles you can use for this reasoning:

1.) The Federation and Starfleet have a rich and detailed history.
This is good because it allows creators of new Trek stuff, like Cryptic, to tap a large amount of source material. The downside is that there's less room when it comes to the use of older ships, unlike the Romulans or the Klingons. As a result the Federation has more canon ships than the others have canon and Cryptic-designed ships put together.

2.) The Romulan ships as they appeared in "Minefield" were a massive anachronism.
They were more advanced in looks than the ones from TOS and would have perfectly fit in with the 24th century ships. I mean seriously they would have been perfect as small companions of the D'deridex, fighting JH fighters in the Dominion War. They were also equipped with cloaking devices even though in TOS the entire concept was merely a theory to Kirk and Spock.
The creators of the "Enterprise"-episode even admitted later this was a mistake.
So that CBs allows the T'varo as a 25th century ship is pretty their way of saying that the appearance of that ship in "Enterprise" was a mistake and this ship essentially belongs more to the 24th/25th century than the 22nd.

Heck when I designed a 24th century refit for the Romulan D7 I based the nacelles and the bridge module on that ship and the result looks more advanced than the D7.

https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/12...mulanr7top.jpg

https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/12...ulanr7side.jpg

You might want to write the appearance of that ship off as interference from another faction in the "Temporal Cold War" that was undone at the end of "Stormfront".
That's exactly how I explained the anachronistic T'varo warbirds in Enterprise when I wrote my discussion of Romulan identity, culture, and history: Ahr'fvahir mnean?

Fvillhu s'Tal'Diann (Phi'Tlaru Rihan) ~(‾.▿.‾)~ Praetor of the Tal'Diann (Romulan Military Intelligence)
Tal'Diann = KDF-allied Romulan Republic Fleet / Tal Diann = Fed-allied Romulan Republic Fleet
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 251
# 23
03-08-2014, 06:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by catliketyping View Post
Citation please? Where does Cryptic say that?

You don't really stay under Cloak during attack runs. The wiki/tooltip(?) description says "When attacking while cloaked, the ships cloak will drop for a few seconds, leaving the ship momentarily exposed with the shields down." If you've done the T'varo or B'rel on an attack, you do come out of cloak while firing, which is especially obvious when you pull aggro.

Whether this behavior is different than pressing the Cloak/Decloak button in terms of mechanics, I don't know. I'm willing to read where they say it, though.

Even if I'm sacrificing damage, I still pull aggro off of Scimitars even with my n00b Photon Torpedo setup, so maybe I don't want even more spike in PVE.
A normal cloak grants a 15% attack damage bonus when exiting cloak. My Toon is Romulan, so there is the extra 10% attack damage bonus when exiting cloak.

http://sto.gamepedia.com/Ability:_Enhanced_Battle_Cloak

That's where most of the information I am citing comes from. Keep in mind my character is a Romulan, so there is a racial bonus when exiting cloak.

In terms of mechanics, the brief period in which a ship with Enhanced Battle Cloak is revealed, it still counts as being cloaked, therefore you can't use any weapons other than Torpedoes. I've noticed this everytime I do use the Enhanced Battle Cloak as an Enhanced Battle Cloak. My Quantums go out, but not my cannons.

Of course, your playstyle and mine is different. I tend to use the T'varo as more of a small stealth bomber, unleashing cannon fire and both Quantum and the Destabilized Plasma Torpedoes before pulling away and either continuing the assault, or decloaking for another run. Rarely do I stay under cloak longer than I need to set up attack runs.

Last edited by cliftona91; 03-08-2014 at 06:46 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 130
# 24
03-08-2014, 06:47 PM
I love the T'Varo too, have it flown by my Reman tac. I got the Scimitar 3-pack and it just doesn't do anything for me personally. Though I'm also a bit of a traditionalist Trekkie (which is likewise, a STO heretic) in that I've got the full Reman set on it, plus the Romulan weapon/console set, and the rest is cannon/turret with a dual beam up front and the experimental beam out back. Does it do the nastiest DPS in the game? Why no, no it doesn't. But it's still an awful lot of fun to play with in the PvEs, missions and dailies that I personally like to do.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 556
# 25
03-08-2014, 08:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cliftona91 View Post
A normal cloak grants a 15% attack damage bonus when exiting cloak. My Toon is Romulan, so there is the extra 10% attack damage bonus when exiting cloak.

http://sto.gamepedia.com/Ability:_Enhanced_Battle_Cloak

That's where most of the information I am citing comes from. Keep in mind my character is a Romulan, so there is a racial bonus when exiting cloak.

In terms of mechanics, the brief period in which a ship with Enhanced Battle Cloak is revealed, it still counts as being cloaked, therefore you can't use any weapons other than Torpedoes. I've noticed this everytime I do use the Enhanced Battle Cloak as an Enhanced Battle Cloak. My Quantums go out, but not my cannons.
Yeah, but that's always been the case with Enhanced Battle Cloak. You can't fire cannons because General Chang didn't, so that's how the B'rel works... and that's what the T'varo inherited.

The fact that the enemy can shoot at you tells me I'm not cloaked. So some mechanics treat me as uncloaked/dropped cloak.

What I'm saying is that whether or not I can fire cannons doesn't mean I don't get the Romulan bonus for going out of cloak. You might count cannons as being key to being uncloaked, while me, I count being shot at as dropping cloak. I don't have to press the button, unlike other BoPs or Warbirds... but this isn't new because it was the case with the B'rel before.

Whether I get the Romulan bonus or not, it doesn't clearly say. A lot of it is the old Battle Cloak/Enhanced Battle Cloak wording.
Nessia (KDF Sci), IKS Aluminum Falcon (B'rel Retrofit)

Swimsuits: People will pay almost any price to let their characters show a little skin... any price except joining the KDF.
Ensign
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3
# 26
03-09-2014, 12:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by catliketyping View Post
Yeah, but that's always been the case with Enhanced Battle Cloak. You can't fire cannons because General Chang didn't, so that's how the B'rel works... and that's what the T'varo inherited.

The fact that the enemy can shoot at you tells me I'm not cloaked. So some mechanics treat me as uncloaked/dropped cloak.

What I'm saying is that whether or not I can fire cannons doesn't mean I don't get the Romulan bonus for going out of cloak. You might count cannons as being key to being uncloaked, while me, I count being shot at as dropping cloak. I don't have to press the button, unlike other BoPs or Warbirds... but this isn't new because it was the case with the B'rel before.

Whether I get the Romulan bonus or not, it doesn't clearly say. A lot of it is the old Battle Cloak/Enhanced Battle Cloak wording.
It's really easy to tell, just have a look at your buffs. Yes, you become visible for a second, but your cloak buff never goes away. Neither does for example your bous to defese.

At the same time, you never get the ambush buff. Because you are still cloaked, just visible.

There is really no ambiguity here, it's pretty selfexplanatory.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,043
# 27
03-09-2014, 03:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by protogoth View Post
That's exactly how I explained the anachronistic T'varo warbirds in Enterprise when I wrote my discussion of Romulan identity, culture, and history: Ahr'fvahir mnean?
Ahoi!
Gotta admit, I avoided that thread. Not because of you but because there's a general aura of nuclear fire surrounding that topic. And given the general flamey aura I see in other topics, I decided to skip that one. The "Klingons are a mentally retarded boomboom-faction!" notion uttered by some is already enough. I don't need stuff from the "Romulans must be portrayed as comicy villains a la Baron Greenback and his henchmen from Danger Mouse!" crowd as well.
So please take no offense but I'll steer clear of that one.

Anyway, it's not like we haven't seen a 25th century Raptor in the mid 23rd century in STO right?.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1,185
# 28
03-09-2014, 10:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by misterde3 View Post
Ahoi!
Gotta admit, I avoided that thread. Not because of you but because there's a general aura of nuclear fire surrounding that topic. And given the general flamey aura I see in other topics, I decided to skip that one. The "Klingons are a mentally retarded boomboom-faction!" notion uttered by some is already enough. I don't need stuff from the "Romulans must be portrayed as comicy villains a la Baron Greenback and his henchmen from Danger Mouse!" crowd as well.
So please take no offense but I'll steer clear of that one.

Anyway, it's not like we haven't seen a 25th century Raptor in the mid 23rd century in STO right?.
Uh. I certainly do not portray the Romulans as villains (comical or otherwise). That said, I also do not whitewash the crimes of some members of the species. I spent quite some time in researching this, and my sources are given at the end of the final page. I believe my discussion is about as accurate as you're likely to find.

You can safely read the discussion in the link I provided in this thread without having to deal with the lovers of the Tal'Shiar. It goes directly to my discussion itself (on my fleet's website), and not to any thread on the PWE site.

Fvillhu s'Tal'Diann (Phi'Tlaru Rihan) ~(‾.▿.‾)~ Praetor of the Tal'Diann (Romulan Military Intelligence)
Tal'Diann = KDF-allied Romulan Republic Fleet / Tal Diann = Fed-allied Romulan Republic Fleet
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 50
# 29
03-09-2014, 11:26 AM
I think he just meant the topic in general tends to draw a lot of arguing, protogoth, which is true enough.

On topic: I don't have either T'varo, but I've poked my head into Ker'rat randomly enough (not really specced well but sometimes the place can be fun to mess around in) to have seen one slinging red doom balls everywhere from cloak once.

I learned terror that day. And made it my mission to shoot that guy every time he showed up.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,043
# 30
03-09-2014, 11:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by admiraldc View Post
I think he just meant the topic in general tends to draw a lot of arguing, protogoth, which is true enough.
Indeed.

Like I said it's not because of Protogoth or Protogoth's posts.
I very much enjoy reading a differentiated approach to such topics.
It's because of the kind of discussion that can also be observed in the thread about a potential Romulan Academy.

Last edited by misterde3; 03-09-2014 at 11:39 AM.
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