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Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,526
# 21
03-13-2014, 09:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by marc8219 View Post
Seems like only you and me supported nerfing epte in my thread about it awhile back. A lot of others either wanted all EPTX powers to also be nerfed the same way or left alone. I don't know why most of the pvp community doesn't see this as a huge issue, it makes either technicians or DCE mandatory and restricts a lot of the options you can use for builds, making it less interesting as a result. So many escort builds I could have fun with if only I could ditch those stupid DCEs.
I have always flown my escorts with ETPS and ETPE... going with out epts for 15s isn't the end of the world. Try it out... just make sure you run TSS while EPTS is down.

OF course with DOFFS these days why gimp yourself I guess.
When the messenger comes to appropriate your profits ... kill the messenger.
Career Officer
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 514
# 22
03-14-2014, 12:48 PM
The EPtW change was creep, but theres a hell of a lot more build adversity now than before. If they went ahead and adjusted the values things would have been ok, but before, it was just EPtSx2 on everything.
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Rihannsu
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 358
# 23
03-14-2014, 06:30 PM
I understand that the majority of players are tac and there are not many complaints regarding team skill cd removal, but there are sci players and we have suffered a lot from this change. Sub Nuke Beam, main sci debuff, has been nullified.

And it is after eptx debuff cleaner Warp Core Engineer which made it possible to make sci immune builds.
If there is such a doff against my career, I would like to have a doff which would make me immune to all tac.

eptx buff discussion, really? The whole class in game has suffered and dying and no word about it.

Elachi weapons buff is complete mess. There are those which claim that it is ok and that change simply made those weapons useful. Sure, it is a coincidence that since this patch every premade uses elachi weapons and their prices skyrocketed. Not to mention that in ground pvp those are being used more as well.

Space pvp was pretty good before last two patches, Warp Core Engineer cleaner was main headache.
Yes, there are many problems but those didn't turn this game into total pain at least. I was thinking that I might have a bad luck at the beginning, but every game I join now is a crap.
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Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,526
# 24
03-14-2014, 07:50 PM
Well to be honest subnuke is unchanged... so the average pug is more likely to clear your nuke so what. Shame on them for being able to load a sci team themselves instead of a resist a premade player could load because his teammates auto clear him.

Sub nuke was never about the silly debuff in premades... pugs just got more premade like in being able to clear it more reliably. The main thing with nuke is and always has been the strip. There is NOTHING anyone can do about the strip. The silly debuff was cleared by any half way unsuck premade since S 1.0.

Yes its hard to argue that the average pugs are more liable to clear many science skills now... I would hardly say science is neutered though... and yes there have been plenty of changes that have been anti ENGI and even a few believe it or not that where anti tac.

Science ships are about to get always click sensor ann and they can even use it on friendlies to boost healing... not to mention second deflectors should be in game soon.

I have a hard time shedding tears for Sci. Sci still decide most matches... if you subtract the stupid nature of FAW which has more to do with people not playing right now then a few extra sci teams.
When the messenger comes to appropriate your profits ... kill the messenger.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,890
# 25
03-14-2014, 08:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
Yes its hard to argue that the average pugs are more liable to clear many science skills now... I would hardly say science is neutered though... and yes there have been plenty of changes that have been anti ENGI and even a few believe it or not that where anti tac.
Science is most certainly neutered in 1v1 at the moment. There is nothing a Science officer can do to take incoming Romulan Tactical officer damage. Science Vessels can't even do significant damage to their targets in order to kill them. All of it is absorbed from two piece borg and passive heal procs. They can't even reliably detect cloak without setting their whole build around it due to the massive stealth bonus on Romulan bridge officers. Science officers are at the mercy of their target's ability to clear them with ease.
  • Offensive Science abilities color coded based on their usefulness. Red is useless, Orange is somewhat useless, yellow is partially useful, green is useful, and blue is very useful.
    • Tachyon Beam/Charged Particle Burst - Limited range, shield strip cut in half by minimal investment in Starship Power Insulators. Cleared via Science Team and passive shield regeneration.
    • Tykens Rift - Limited range and minimal damage, power drain cut in half by minimal investment in Starship Power Insulators. Cleared with Hazard Emitter. Easily avoided with Emergency Power to Engines, Evasive Maneuvers, Attack Pattern Omega, or Auxiliary to Inertial Dampeners.
    • Gravity Well - Limited range and minimal damage, pull is completely negated via six ranks in Starship Inertial Dampers. The ability is only useful for clearing spam. Auxiliary to Inertial Dampeners, Attack Pattern Omega, and Emergency Power to Engines provide effective immunity.
    • Scramble Sensors - Effective ability in PvP, but useless in PvE. Duration cut in half with six ranks in Starship Sensors. Cleared by Science Team and the Cleanse All Debuffs WCE.
    • Jam Sensors - Useless against teams using multiple copies of fire at will. The only viable use is reflex response to placate out Alpha strikes. Cleared by Science Team and the Cleanse All Debuffs WCE.
    • Viral Matrix - Low duration and skill points provide little in the way to extend the duration of the effects. Shields are immune to disable via this proc and any Emergency Power to X ability will bring the relevant subsystem back online. On top of that, there is also a chance the Cleanse All Debuffs Warp Core Engineer will remove it completely. Also cleared by Engineering Team. Subsystem Repair effectively cuts the short duration of the duty officer effects in half. Useful for knocking Romulans out of cloak.
    • Photonic Shockwave - Tiny area of effect and damage is completely absorbed due to 75% shield damage resistance against kinetic. Even with maximum investment, the disable effect is cut to less than a second against targets with six ranks in inertial dampers. Additionally, Attack Pattern Omega and Auxiliary to Inertial Dampeners provide 100% immunity to the effects of the ability. What is that split second good for? Oh right, using the ability to Alpha strike Science Vessels.
    • Energy Siphon - Useful for a self power buff only. The power drain is cut in half by minimal investment in Starship Power Insulators. Additionally, the ability is cleansed by Science Team, Hazard Emitters, and the Cleanse Alll Debuffs WCE.
    • Feedback Pulse - Very useful against Federation and Klingon Tactical officers using Energy Weapons. Useless against Romulan Tactical officers, as their sheer number of Critical hits will kill before the pulses make it back to the Romulan ship. Countered via Torpedo based weapons or simply ceasing fire on the Science Vessel. Also puts the Science Vessel at a major risk due to a 15 second shared cooldown with Transfer Shield Strength.
    • Tractor Beam Repulsors - A Science Vessel's only viable offensive ability at the moment. Unfortunately, this ability is completely negated with Polarize Hull. Even the damage from repulsors is blocked via Polarize Hull. An ensign level ability with no investment and the same cooldown length as TBR can provide 100% immunity to a commander level ability that requires a massive investment to deal respectable damage. Additionally, Attack Pattern Omega and Auxiliary to Inertial Dampeners provide immunity to the pull and a large resistance buff to the damage. Emergency Power to Engines makes it possible to stay out of the range of the effects all the time.
    • Tractor Beam - Useful for one thing, Alpha striking Science Vessels. Attack Pattern Omega, Auxiliary to Inertial Dampeners, Emergency Power to Engines, Evasive Maneuvers, Polarize Hull, or simply having high engine power will all counter the ability. Effects are cut in half via Starship Inertial Dampeners.
    • Subnukeleonic Beam - Very effective at buff stripping and putting abilities on extended cooldown. Easily countered via Science Team, Auxiliary to Battery, and the Cleanse All Debuffs WCE.
    • Sensors Scan - Area of effect damage resistance debuff. Cleared by Science Team and the Cleanse All Debuffs WCE. The fact that it is AoE makes the ability much more viable.

In summary, Science Vessels are useless against anything running Attack Pattern Omega, Auxiliary to Battery or Inertial Dampeners, and Emergency Power to Shields + Engines with the Cleanse All Debuffs Warp Core Engineer. If they want to provide a surefire way to keep themselves 100% immune to Science effects, then it is just a matter of popping on Science Team, bam, no more Science debuffs...ever. Science Vessel abilities have cooldowns 2-4 times longer than any Tactical or Engineering ability. It is impossible to chain Science abilities 100% of the time the same way it is possible to chain EPTX, Attack Patterns, CRF, CSV, BO, FAW, TS, HY, Aux2ID, and Aux2Bat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
Science ships are about to get always click sensor ann and they can even use it on friendlies to boost healing... not to mention second deflectors should be in game soon.
It won't make much of a difference considering it will break the second a target breaks 10km. The big warning animation dropped on the target will be a dead giveaway. It doesn't even detoggle after a target dies and it has a five second toggle cooldown.

Secondary deflectors aren't going to do anything to help Science Vessels. +7.6 to three stats and a minor shield heal isn't going to have any distinguishable effect on combat. They won't even come close to the effects cruiser commands have on cruisers and battle cruisers. It is just as bad as Subsystem Targeting. Good in theory, but useless at the moment due to insane power level overcap.
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Real join date: March 2012
PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
Commander
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 302
# 26
03-14-2014, 09:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rylanadionysis View Post
These are of course my opinions but I do know for a fact a lot of them are shared with at least some of you. Some more than others, but as I never really hold back a thought, here we go. My top ten list of development changes since the summer that has made PvP more and more of a joke.


1. The Romulan faction. This is an old dead horse in most aspects but today it still rings true more than anything else in the game. The crit hit chance coupled with nearly unbreakable battle cloaks on every ship coupled with the escape skills via singularity powers coupled with the lunacy of the overpowered universal consoles (valdore being the big nasty of them all) has turned PvP into a pointy vs pointy war in which most of our toons established prior to Legacy of Romulus have been rendered utterly obsolete. This is true also for nearly every federation ship and many of the KDF non battle cloakers. Why play a human or klingon when you can play an overpowered space elf with more damage and defense than anything else?

2. Spire tactical consoles. We knew these were coming, but the addition of up to eight critical hit chance or 40 critical severity pushed the power creep a lightyear above what it was before. In fact, this singular addition rivals the power creep jump of LOR itself. Before LOR the most crit any ship would ever see was about 15%, now it is completely possible to push that to 35 and even a little higher, right along with crit severities hitting 150-200.

3. The shuttle PvP addition. This completely flopped and the main reason it did is because of universal consoles and nimbus/fleet support bringing in Starship level power and damage to a field of ships not able to handle it. Take a single isometric charge or integration circuit up against a couple shuttles and see what happens.

4. The Voth ships. Rarely talked about, these ships come with console bonuses that when combined with boff abilities and specs turn them into nearly unkillable science spammers. I was not wrong when I said the Palisade was going to knock the wells off the mountain, it has and it has a lot. Add this to the fact we already had nearly unkillable ships, and it will lead into the next problem.

5. Additions of more universal console madness (and the ability to stack them ad nauseum, and obtain the uni consoles of both sides for use on ONE ship). This has lead to the prevalence of Vapers, Supper Bosted FAW boats that can do insane amounts of bleedthrough damage, The whole uni console pack via lockbox thing needs to stop now, but its probably already too late. It gets even worse on a romulan toon that can get access to EVERY SINGLE CONSOLE IN THE GAME and stack them together into a ship that can then spike for over 300,000 damage in 3 seconds via BO/TS/ISO/Proton/Ion/Bioneural/god knows what else. The impulse capacitance cell being given to everyone was the stupidest move I have ever seen, as well. Not to mention its possible to bypass console cooldowns by swapping them out of combat, christ sakes cryptic, think about this stuff!

6. Doffs. This isnt really a last six months only thing, but in the last six or so months we have seen the addition of some of the most ridiculously overpowered and imbalancing doffs of them all. Impossible to name them all, but between the Elachi lockbox, Romulan doff pack, Voth lockbox, Tal Shiar Lockbox, and Hirogen lockbox we have seen some pretty insane combinations come out. Additionally we also had a sixth doff slot added with the spire, making the doff problem in space even worse!!

7. EPTX. Increasing the duration was the single stupidest move you have made with any boff power, ever. Having EPTS at 100 percent uptime, EPTE at 100 percent uptime. Do you not see the problem with that? It is completely and totally possible via doffs to have a ship able to move at near full impulse speeds (or more with other abilities) 100 percent of the time.

8. Whatever you did with the changes to pets when you came out with the obelisk. Its already been mentioned on the forums tonight in another section, but the ability to stack buffs on the pets you launch turns them into little nightmares stacking 12 APBs or worse on your opponents. Lets not forget the addition of all these new frigates and other harassment pets lately that have really silly abilities they can spam so often that it seems like youre literally caught in a web of debuffs constantly.

9. Unlinking the cooldowns for Tactical/Engineering/Science teams. Some people on the forum here seem to think this isnt a big deal, but ive seen whats happening in the game. People are starting to carry them all the time, making subnuke/sensor scan/fomm/and a plethora of boff skills virtually unusable most of the time. No longer do we have to pick and choose and make tradeoffs in our skills, no no, defense wasnt high enough before, now we can just slap every single clear onto our ship and just remove anything at the press of a button without needing any help from our teammates. This was a problem with the Keelel doff to be sure, but its been amplified murderously by this change.

10. The upcoming change to Elachi weapon procs. As if we didnt have enough shield bypass out there already? Yes defenses are high but this change is going to have the effect of basically rendering the concept of a shield obsolete. Might as well hulltank it now because the proc is going to be hitting you every couple of seconds once everyone switches to them. No more lockout time, everyone can proc it over and over and over.


So there is my list, oh there is way more but Ill leave that up for discussion. I am so close to just being done with it all. Ive stuck around and been as competitive/flexible/understanding as possible. I am a fighter and stubborn, but the last couple of weeks especially have really put some last straws into play. Something has to give, something has to change, and at this rate like so many others it might just be me stopping STO altogether. PvP was bad before all of this garbage. Now its just awful.
Dude, i know u havent been around as long as some of the vets, but ill tell ya now, get ready to release STO from your brain if you know whats good for ya.

Skill and competition in this game is slowly fading, because with all the crap they add there is less and less to finetune and time, just spam spam continuously.
::: HIT ME UP IN MWO !!! :::

Last edited by therealmt; 03-14-2014 at 09:14 PM.
Commander
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 302
# 27
03-14-2014, 09:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
Well to be honest subnuke is unchanged... so the average pug is more likely to clear your nuke so what. Shame on them for being able to load a sci team themselves instead of a resist a premade player could load because his teammates auto clear him.

Sub nuke was never about the silly debuff in premades... pugs just got more premade like in being able to clear it more reliably. The main thing with nuke is and always has been the strip. There is NOTHING anyone can do about the strip. The silly debuff was cleared by any half way unsuck premade since S 1.0.

Yes its hard to argue that the average pugs are more liable to clear many science skills now... I would hardly say science is neutered though... and yes there have been plenty of changes that have been anti ENGI and even a few believe it or not that where anti tac.

Science ships are about to get always click sensor ann and they can even use it on friendlies to boost healing... not to mention second deflectors should be in game soon.

I have a hard time shedding tears for Sci. Sci still decide most matches... if you subtract the stupid nature of FAW which has more to do with people not playing right now then a few extra sci teams.
Really? Last i heard some doffs could cool it down
::: HIT ME UP IN MWO !!! :::
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,890
# 28
03-14-2014, 09:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by therealmt View Post
Dude, i know u havent been around as long as some of the bets, but ill tell ya now, get ready to release STO from your brain if you know whats good for ya.
He is right though on all counts. That was a perfect summary of the problems with the game at the moment. I spent a good three days reviewing all the game's mechanics trying to find an easy fix for Space combat. The sad thing is there are so many imbalanced mechanics, items, and abilities that the devs would need to take a slash and burn approach to bring a semblance of balance back to the game.
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Real join date: March 2012
PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
Commander
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 302
# 29
03-14-2014, 09:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by majortiraomega View Post
He is right though on all counts. That was a perfect summary of the problems with the game at the moment. I spent a good three days reviewing all the game's mechanics trying to find an easy fix for Space combat. The sad thing is there are so many imbalanced mechanics, items, and abilities that the devs would need to take a slash and burn approach to bring a semblance of balance back to the game.
Total game rewrite, and why? Wouldnt profit them. They do well on this path, and one must be blind if they still see a competitive and fair future in pvp.
::: HIT ME UP IN MWO !!! :::
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,890
# 30
03-14-2014, 09:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by therealmt View Post
Total game rewrite, and why? Wouldnt profit them. They do well on this path, and one must be blind if they still see a competitive and fair future in pvp.
There is still Ground PvP. That area has a decent amount of game balance overall.
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Real join date: March 2012
PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
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