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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,063
# 21
03-19-2014, 03:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by angrytarg View Post
I cannot proof what I'm about to say as it's a thing of the past, but I think if I remember correctly the reason for those pets not getting the Hangar UI was that hangar pets are supposed to be superior and seperation pets are only supposed to be a gimmick as you have to pay/work for the first or something like that.
I can... almost sorta see that argument for the Galaxy and Odyssey saucers. Truth be told - and this is missed by like half the people who complain about the fact that the option even exists - the bonus of saucer separation was already explained on the show itself, and carries over to STO. The point is to get RID of the saucer. The fact that it hangs around is a bonus (usually, sometimes a disadvantage).

However, the Aquarius and MVAE units... no. The Aquarius is weak enough as-is, and is supposed to act like a tougher fighter - go out and engage threats in a firepower-licious fashion ahead of the main mothership, which it is arguably there to protect. As-is, it's a gnat that, when it actually does enough to get noticed, gets swatted and accordingly fares as well as a gnat does against a person's hand, except without any of the gnat's knack for survival.

The MVAE, the entire point is 3-vs-1 combat. That said, I have had a lot more luck with the MVAE than any of the other separation craft (and I own all of the Federation ones, as far as I know, except for the Fleet MVAE). That said, I think the AI on the MVAE is somehow superior to that of the other units, though it still needs improvement.

Note I do not agree that the separable pets should not have controls, merely that I can understand the arguments for the saucers.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 132
# 22
03-19-2014, 03:51 PM
I completely agree. Especially when you want to try and heal the Saucer. Sometimes I never really notice it is destroyed.

If it ever comes, please add the function of manually applying the Lance. I would like to sync. it up with the Phaser wide-beam. Make it function as a the special abilities bar.

Make the ability of Antimatter Spread grey, for those who do not have that synergy yet. It would go well together. The Phaser Lance can be added to the bar as well.
Lan - FED - Engineer - Android/Alien [Maddox-type, Soong template] - Guardian Cruiser

[Data has formally refused to submit to Maddox]
Lt. Commander Data: And Commander, continue your work. When you are ready, I will still be here. I find some of what you propose... intriguing.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,941
# 23
03-19-2014, 04:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by doomfrost View Post
Can't trust AI to use it appropriately.
Which sums this whole thread up in one sentence. The AI behavior of the separated part is unpredictable, it's role is only supportive under ideal circumstances and if we can't control it, it should always default to a supportive role rather than it's current "seek death quickly" mode. Sure it all looks great if you're running fraps making videos for YouTube, but actual usefulness in game play is considerably less spectacular.
I'm not in favor of losing boffs to the separated parts, that would involve sacrificing critical bridge officer powers and buffs to what would still be AI controlled ships even if we had a marginal carrier/away team type control interface. Spreading those powers over multiple parts would be complicated to manage and I've no doubt too complicated for developers to implement properly without a lot of work.
We're trying to get them to extend an already existing game asset, carrier commands, to separated parts, the amount of development time and effort required would be considerably less than that required to invent a whole new system for separated parts involving Boff assignments.
If something is not broken, don't fix it, if it is broken, don't leave it.
Oh Hell NO to ARC........One Ring to Rule Them all........
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,387
# 24
03-19-2014, 06:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by red01999 View Post
I can... almost sorta see that argument for the Galaxy and Odyssey saucers. Truth be told - and this is missed by like half the people who complain about the fact that the option even exists - the bonus of saucer separation was already explained on the show itself, and carries over to STO. The point is to get RID of the saucer. The fact that it hangs around is a bonus (usually, sometimes a disadvantage).
While I would concede your point on both the Oddy and the Galaxy-R, that argument is less convincing for the Galaxy-X. Yes, for the Galaxy-R, the families are suppose to evac to the Saucer and get out of Dodge. For the Galaxy-X, however, families would NOT be aboard as it is a BATTLESHIP. While the Galaxy-R would have luxurious accommodations for families, the Galaxy-X would have Spartan accommodations. They are likely bunkrooms much like on Navy ships today; 16 inches, and hot bunking (one guy gets into bed as soon as the other gets out). Therefore, the saucer WOULD be a combat component much like the MVAM of the Prommy. If not, what is the point of separation?

Last edited by davidwford; 03-20-2014 at 09:30 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 11,103
# 25
03-19-2014, 06:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by red01999 View Post
I can... almost sorta see that argument for the Galaxy and Odyssey saucers. Truth be told - and this is missed by like half the people who complain about the fact that the option even exists - the bonus of saucer separation was already explained on the show itself, and carries over to STO. The point is to get RID of the saucer. The fact that it hangs around is a bonus (usually, sometimes a disadvantage).

However, the Aquarius and MVAE units... no. The Aquarius is weak enough as-is, and is supposed to act like a tougher fighter - go out and engage threats in a firepower-licious fashion ahead of the main mothership, which it is arguably there to protect. As-is, it's a gnat that, when it actually does enough to get noticed, gets swatted and accordingly fares as well as a gnat does against a person's hand, except without any of the gnat's knack for survival.

The MVAE, the entire point is 3-vs-1 combat. That said, I have had a lot more luck with the MVAE than any of the other separation craft (and I own all of the Federation ones, as far as I know, except for the Fleet MVAE). That said, I think the AI on the MVAE is somehow superior to that of the other units, though it still needs improvement.

Note I do not agree that the separable pets should not have controls, merely that I can understand the arguments for the saucers.
That would be great if the Saucer went away. But it doesn't behave like it did in the shows.
http://i1151.photobucket.com/albums/o633/centersolace/189cux9khvl6ojpg_zpsca7ccff0.jpg

So inhumane superweapons, mass murder, and canon nonsense is okay, but speedos are too much for some people.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,941
# 26
03-19-2014, 08:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by centersolace View Post
That would be great if the Saucer went away. But it doesn't behave like it did in the shows.
There's the rub. If the saucer avoided combat, fled away from enemies and maybe threw heals your way once in while it would be staying within it's canon role in the series, but it has been made a combat pet, engaging targets and basically acting as a distraction requiring your attention when you least need it.
It's remarkable that something as substantial as an undocked section of a Starship doesn't have a better UI interface than throw away cannon fodder like hanger pets.
If something is not broken, don't fix it, if it is broken, don't leave it.
Oh Hell NO to ARC........One Ring to Rule Them all........
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 11,103
# 27
03-19-2014, 09:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxvitor View Post
There's the rub. If the saucer avoided combat, fled away from enemies and maybe threw heals your way once in while it would be staying within it's canon role in the series, but it has been made a combat pet, engaging targets and basically acting as a distraction requiring your attention when you least need it.
It's remarkable that something as substantial as an undocked section of a Starship doesn't have a better UI interface than throw away cannon fodder like hanger pets.
Well it was used in combat. It was used to defeat Locutus in The Best of Both Worlds.

If only it worked like that too.
http://i1151.photobucket.com/albums/o633/centersolace/189cux9khvl6ojpg_zpsca7ccff0.jpg

So inhumane superweapons, mass murder, and canon nonsense is okay, but speedos are too much for some people.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 491
# 28
03-20-2014, 03:55 AM
The separated parts may never get a level of control we want, but some basic control should be possible. The three basic commands can be Defend, Support and Attack.

Defend - keeps the separated pet close to you and it shoots at things shooting at you.

Support - uses special abilities to keep you alive or supports the defense of a designated object

Attack - goes after the nearest threat (but should return to you when the threat is gone or you move a certain distance away from the pet).

Overall, the pet AI needs to be improved in how the separated pet acts, especially hanging around exploding ships. The basic commands will also allow the player to determine what the pet does while separated from the base ship.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,064
# 29
03-21-2014, 07:15 AM
Actually what I would like to see is

attack: close with enemy inflict as much damage as possible
Harass: stand off and engage long range, sci torp etc.
support: don't engage throw hull and shield heal, and buffs like attack patterns
Return/disengage
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