Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 111
01-24-2010, 04:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TallBear
you are so dead wrong. ANY comp out there should and is made for the CPU and GPU to run at MAX 100% load 24/7/365. If a system can't it is because 1) the owner has not taken proper care of the machine by regularly cleaning the fans, heat syncs, and air pathways, 2) the machine was flawed in it's design

This isn't like a car LOL.

If you just built a machine YOURSELF and your CPU is 60c and GPU at 100c, you did one CRAPPY job building that rig, or you bought some CRAPPY parts.

I can run my system at 100% everything, and nothing ever even gets CLOSE to dangerous - especially with this game. CPU never over 50c and GPUs between 40-60c

If I were you I would rebuild my machine, making sure you put proper paste between the cpu and the heat sync, and if you are OCing your system, then don't OC it. Or OC it with bigger and better fans or possibly water cool it.

But any system that is not OCed, and kept in proper order will NEVER, EVER overheat from this game.

I used the car as a metaphor,sorry people can't understand that, and I use only the good parts, if you read what I posted above you will see that, and sorry I may not be as rich as you and get the water cooling system, or the tri athlon mega dominating your face CPU, and the Apocalypse your face GPU with the Supermans breath cooling system hooked to that, but I know for a fact my system is well put together, with the proper precision and research I can spend.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 112
01-24-2010, 04:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TallBear
Yep. I'm a computer engineer. I started out as a tech, then network engineer.. then worked for companies designing chips, cards, and mobos.

Like a said, it's NEVER EVER a software's fault for burning out ANYTHING in your system. Even one of those torture test benchmarks.

It's always a few things:

Owner error in not maintaining their machine
Owner building a maching thinking they know what they are doing, built it wrong or use cheap/faulty parts
Namebrand machine that is improperly built
Lastly, just plain faulty HW
Agreed. I have 20 years working with MS based machines and am currently an NA. I put all my case fans on idle, and set my GPU fan to auto. After 10 minutes of running Furmark, I had reached a mean of 84C and 60% fan duty cycle.

Then, leaving the case fans on idle, I manually set the GPU fan to 100% duty cycle (leaving Furmark still running) and within minutes it dropped to an even 65C.

Running STO with all airflow maxed, windowed mode, all settings cranked, I run at 54C.

30C cooler than running Furmark with airflow MINIMIZED. By taking trend readings in steps I am able to prove that airflow directly affects the temperatures.

That right there goes to show that some of you guys have no clue what you're doing. Just because you figured out how to take the access panel off and remove an old video card and replace it with a new one doesn't mean you "know computers". It means you can perform a monkey simple task of module replacement. Impressive.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 113
01-24-2010, 04:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shanvhere View Post
but I know for a fact my system is well put together, with the proper precision and research I can spend.
You can say it all you want till you're blue in the face, but the facts that present themselves are to the contrary if you're overheating. You can tell me all day long that the sky is green but I know better. Just because you say it doesn't mean it's so. Especially with evidence against you.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 114
01-24-2010, 07:28 PM
People don't seem to understand some basic facts about the operation of computers here, so let me put this real simply.

Software uses computational cycles on the computer when executed. If the software is intensive, it takes more computational cycles to be executed; all computer parts have a computational limit. The is nothing a piece of software can do, just be being run, that can physically overload hardware. Software is not a physical object, it is a logical construct, and doesn't physically exist, therefore it cannot physically alter hardware in any way just by being executed (in other words, anything short of overclocking the hardware, which STO obviously doesn't do). The most software can do is run your hardware at the aforementioned computational limit, putting your hardware at "full load"; there is no magical means by which one piece of programming can harm a computer whilst others do not, as all that differs from the hardware perspective is the size of the program in memory, and the number of computational cycles needed for execution. I hope this point has been sufficiently stated and reiterated.


So, with that in mind, here's a breakdown of what you can and can't blame Cryptic for:

You can blame Cryptic for software that puts hardware under a heavy load, insofar as you can blame them for making a high-end, system-intensive game (which should have been the understanding upon purchase).

You cannot blame Cryptic if your hardware is incapable of taking said heavy load. Yes, under certain circumstances, STO can computationally max out hardware, which most games do not, but hardware is designed to run in such a state for prolonged periods. CPUs and GPUs are designed to run at 100% load if the component is good, well maintained, and not subject to imprudent levels of overclocking; as such STO does nothing that a given piece of hardware is not designed to do.



To reiterate yet again, software can do nothing but consume computational cycles, and that, in itself, cannot harm hardware no matter how much it maxes that hardware out, because in a proper setting, hardware is designed for such function. In fact, there would be no point in making a processor which couldn't operate at its computational capacity (even though half the Netburst chips couldn't, but I digress), because then you wouldn't be getting the advertised level of performance for said hardware.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 115
01-24-2010, 07:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shanvhere View Post
I used the car as a metaphor,sorry people can't understand that, and I use only the good parts, if you read what I posted above you will see that, and sorry I may not be as rich as you and get the water cooling system, or the tri athlon mega dominating your face CPU, and the Apocalypse your face GPU with the Supermans breath cooling system hooked to that, but I know for a fact my system is well put together, with the proper precision and research I can spend.
You don't have to spend a bundle to build a well-cooled system. You don't need watercooling, and you don't need the high-end components either. But you do need quality components with either reference or better coolers (no video cards with el-cheapo coolers or passive coolers if you plan to game on them).

And if you want to run the game at high graphics settings then you need to shell out for high-mid to top-end gaming video cards.

As for taking your word for a "well put together" PC... If it was overheating with STO (even the buggy beta client), then it's still inadequate cooling for your PC, no matter what you say. It may run cooler for games that are more polished or don't have high PC requirements like STO. This is because your other games are probably not peaking your GPU, CPU, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catamount View Post
You cannot blame Cryptic if your hardware is incapable of taking said heavy load. Yes, under certain circumstances, STO can computationally max out hardware, which most games do not, but hardware is designed to run in such a state for prolonged periods. CPUs and GPUs are designed to run at 100% load if the component is good, well maintained, and not subject to imprudent levels of overclocking; as such STO does nothing that a given piece of hardware is not designed to do.
QFT.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 116
01-24-2010, 07:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shanvhere View Post
Ok ill play, I have a 8800GTS that has a Zalman fan on it, and a 5200+ duel core 2.2 GHZ CPU with also a Zalman fan on it, I use 10 brand new fans, pointing the right way it should. And I don't play the game on max settings. But when I do play STO, my software shoot warnings at me telling me "DANGER WILL ROBINSON DANGER!!!!" And i imminently shut down STO
What drivers, monitoring software, OS, and DirectX build? Also does it spike in a particular area of the game? Have you tried fine tuning the graphics options to see if its a particular option like post processing for example that is causing the heat up?

EDIT: I reread your original post and I noticed you mentioned a CPU heat spike. This seems really really odd because the game is definately GPU bound for me even on the aforementioned laptop that only has a T7700 Core 2. Unless I'm in heavy combat or loading I'm not really getting strong CPU usage compared to Flight Sim or SQL Server for example. What antivirus are you using and does the problem seem worse after patching?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 117
01-24-2010, 07:50 PM
Yep. I think the real problem here is that some of you want to play STO but you don't want to have to build or purchase a system that can handle it. That's not STO's problem and you're in denial. If you wanna play, you gotta pay.

Just because you bought something 2 years ago, doesn't mean that it's capable of handling a front-line software without issues. Over the life of a component there are many factors that help determine the overall life of it and many of those things are directly affected by YOU the consumer/builder.

I don't care why you think you're overheating and it doesn't matter anyway. If you are, then you are. Plain and simple. It needs to be fixed. Because you think you know what you're doing doesn't mean you didn't miss something. It's completely presumptuous and arrogant to then say you know all and people with real world experience and training are ignorant. Instead of trying to bold face tell us you're a god of IT, why don't you instead ask for help. Show us some pictures of your tower, where you keep it, the inside of it, the specs on the fans and their CFM and RPM.

People like me come here to led our personal and professional experience to others who don't have that. All we get for that is people calling us noobs and trying to suggest that WE'RE the ones that don't know what we're talking about. This forum is mostly here for peer to peer support. Not just for Devs. Devs don't have time to address every single persons issues and that's why we come here to help. If you keep acting like this, then maybe those who can help will decide not to and then what? Where are you going to get help for your problem then?

EDIT: I have no problem helping people here for free. Otherwise, outside of here, I charge by the hour.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 118
01-24-2010, 08:08 PM
My GTX 285 sits at 77 degrees in an anomoly cluster in Sector Space...I don't overclock, my case is completely dust free, I have three 80mm fans and a 120 mm fan creating an upward airflow through the grill on the top of my case...the game is a resource ***** Cryptic just admit it and fix it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 119
01-24-2010, 08:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Support_Red
My GTX 285 sits at 77 degrees in an anomoly cluster in Sector Space...I don't overclock, my case is completely dust free, I have three 80mm fans and a 120 mm fan creating an upward airflow through the grill on the top of my case...the game is a resource ***** Cryptic just admit it and fix it.
No one is denying that STO is a resource hog, and while it does need addressing, it is not Cryptic's fault if your computer is not capable or running intensive software. That said, you do realize 77C is a perfectly acceptable temp for a GPU, right?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 120
01-24-2010, 08:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Support_Red
My GTX 285 sits at 77 degrees in an anomoly cluster in Sector Space...I don't overclock, my case is completely dust free, I have three 80mm fans and a 120 mm fan creating an upward airflow through the grill on the top of my case...the game is a resource ***** Cryptic just admit it and fix it.
OMG a GTX 285 and you're complaining about 77C? LOL. Cryptic can't fix your lack of knowledge.
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