Republic Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 612
# 41
07-15-2014, 11:13 PM
I am not gonna hate on Smirk the ways some others are. I do have to point out though that if most other people said I don't know this often, we'd wonder why they were even in their job.

I am not blaming Smirk for this though.

I keep seeing this "Redacted" theme presenting over and over again with STO. It started happening with Bran Flakes and now it is happening more often with information released about the game.

I think I know why they are doing it though.

When I first started playing, the STO Dev team would often talk about all sorts of things they were thinking about adding to the game. As with most games, some things were added while others were not. Sadly, this lead to many players freaking out and yelling "You promised us X!" Simply talking about something is in no way a promise. Some players see it that way though so the Dev team is gonna get knocked one way or the other. Also, I think CBS might be asking them to keep things mum for a little longer...and the end result is a Cryptic employee like Smirk looks like he has no idea what is going on.

I am sure he does, but when you have your boss and your boss's boss telling you to not talk about...well, pretty much everything that is coming, you tend to sound clueless.

At this point, I take pretty much everything anyone says about the game with a grain of salt. I am not hating on anyone here. Just an opinion is all. I also want to make clear that there is no evidence that this is what is happening. All we can really do is speculate.

Let us all not forget though that Smirk and the rest of the STO team are people who work for a living just like the rest of us. Let's not give them too much grief.
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Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,024
# 42
07-15-2014, 11:35 PM
Wall-of-text incoming.

It's difficult for me to point the finger at Priority One, however, there is nowhere else to point.

I respect Priority One's willingness to devote time and money to providing information to the playerbase. They are doing a service out of what I can only imagine is the same passion I also have for the game.

If I'm requesting transcription services from a completely volunteer organization like Priority One, it's because they are one of the few places PWE/Cryptic is willing to go to lend information to be consumed by the playerbase.

That is a problem. Because Cryptic/PWE is pushing the accountability onto P1's shoulders, and not their own (where it should be). Cryptic/PWE should be responsible for the release of information in a format that can be consumed by the entire playerbase, not just those who have ears which 'work as intended'.

As Tacofangs pointed out already, it isn't Al Rivera's fault, nor is it his responsibility to ensure there is transcribed interviews to be digested in a text format.

It is Mr. Rivera's fault, and for that matter the fault of Cryptic Studios and PWE that they choose to work with P1 despite knowing there are players with hearing impairments who are blocked by this language barrier. It is their fault for knowing beforehand this is an issue and has been an issue for some time now. It is their fault for not doing anything about it other than pointing to P1 and say "We're just the ones being interviewed! P1 are the ones you want to take to task!"

It is the fault of PWE that Smirk also works with P1. It is the fault of Cryptic and PWE that they do not use their own funds and paid labor hours to provide a transcription of information for the playerbase.

It is the fault of Cryptic/PWE that Smirk and other 'official' communications consist of non-answers.

It is the fault of the players (including myself) that we have encouraged them to remain tightlipped and to stay away from the forums and to rely on third parties in order to inform us.

However, it is not our responsibility to step up to bat and volunteer our own time (or money in some cases) to support P1. While I am aware that is very much a desire for P1, unfortunately they are the ones who are in the position of being the fall guy for Cryptic/PWE's anti-information policies. I dislike being in the position of having to 'blame the victim', because P1 is the victim here. They're the victim of PWE/Cryptic's willingness to 'pass the buck'.

We are giving PWE/Cryptic money. Money that is used not only to develop the game, but money that is used to inform us about what to expect from the game and where that money is going to.

Where is my information at, Al? What about you, Trevor? Does the money of the hearing impaired matter little to your company? Do we not buy enough zen, gold and LTS to encourage payroll to set aside labor hours for transcription services? Is PWE that unethical that they would rather me focus my criticism on a volunteer organization so they don't have to spend the money for better information access?

Because if they're a volunteer organization, just think of what PWE can do with paid labor hours as a service to their own customers.

I shouldn't be forced to provide feedback to P1 for information that should be on the forums. I shouldn't be forced to relentlessy and determinedly get my point across that transcriptions for all dev interviews is just as important as the work of P1 actually conducting those interviews.

I shouldn't be forced into the position of being 'that guy' who has to guilt trip money spent on a trip to Las Vegas for the simple request of being able to read developer interviews.

P1 is just as passionate about the game as I am. So why am I trying to fight for my right, and the rights of others who play the game to access the same information in a text format?

Because while the accountability for transcription rests with P1 -- the accountability for forcing my hand lies with PWE/Cryptic and their refusal to provide easy-to-access information for all players on their own website and forums which I (and others) help pay for.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?u=91851766000&type=sigpic&dateline=13403  39147

Last edited by iconians; 07-15-2014 at 11:50 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,525
# 43
07-16-2014, 12:02 AM
Overall I feel that the interviews in those podcasts have become more empty than they used to be. A few months ago it seemed like the interview partners used to drop more information, spoilers, hints or talked about what they were planning to do, stuff that hadn't been talked about anywhere else...now it just feels like a bit of empty chit-chat, repeating things that are already being discussed on the boards for a while or have been dropped elsewhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by askray View Post
*points to the topic*

Lets not go off that kthx, and lets lose the argument about transcribing.
So players/Listeners are not allowed to post feedback about a podcast and discuss it in a topic promoting the aforementioned?
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,555
# 44
07-16-2014, 12:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gooddaytodie39 View Post
They have pretty good talk-to-text tech these days. You'd think they'd have a program that could easily create a transcript from an audio recording.
They don't need that. Just get someone to type as they go. Seriously it isn't rocket science
NO TO ARC
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Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,024
# 45
07-16-2014, 12:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraghul2000 View Post
So players/Listeners are not allowed to post feedback about a podcast and discuss it in a topic promoting the aforementioned?
That's why I switched the feedback from P1 to PWE/Cryptic. Because the buck has to stop somewhere -- and Askray has determined where that's going (or rather where it isn't going).
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?u=91851766000&type=sigpic&dateline=13403  39147
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,555
# 46
07-16-2014, 12:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by elijahmre View Post
Oh, I take it very seriously. And I did say that I'd be happy to try any automated services that would accurately transcribe interviews.

You mentioned you ran a company that required transcripts. Was this company for profit?

Perhaps you are unaware that Priority One Podcast is built entirely by volunteers?

The following is our official statement on the matter of transcriptions...

We have given serious consideration to transcribing our shows in response to the previous requests we have read in our forum threads. However, Priority One has neither the internal talent nor the available funding to commit to this service. No one within our organization has the time or the skills to transcribe our shows efficiently. Our research into professional transcription services indicates that a ballpark figure of $100/episode MIGHT be enough.

Each and every one of our formidable capabilities as a podcast team comes 100% from the donation of time, talent, and treasure. If audio needs editing, somebody sits down at a computer they bought with their own money and takes time out of their day to get it done. If someone needs a microphone or a spam filter for our website comments or a flag for a microphone, either one of our generous listeners chips in a few bucks or we take up a collection internally.

If it gets done by P1, it gets done because somebody steps up and says "Let Me Help."

This is a Star Trek forum. Those words ought to be ringing a bell right now.

We understand that an audio format does not lend itself to ease of reference or inspection. We understand that our content is entirely inaccessible to STO fans with hearing impairments. We are aware that we are not the only podcast that has been asked to transcribe a show. We are aware that these requests range from polite inquiries to surly demands. We are aware that these requests are prevalent when devs are interviewed.

We are unaware of any effort in the community to organize either the time, talent or treasure to accomplish this task.

Priority One will be happy to assist in any concerted, community-wide effort to accomplish this. We do not have the personnel or the funding to take this on alone. If anyone wants to help us out, contact me via our website http://priorityonepodcast.com.

Thank you.
Ok I understand you do it voluntary but how hard is it to take a pen and pad and right down what he says also you asked for money for Vegas what would have been better was be to ask for money to transcript or another option Instead of advertising cosplay see if you can be sponsored by a transcribing service. I would rather not listen to people chatting and find it easier to read and until tthis done there is a few people who can't enjoy P1.
NO TO ARC
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Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,735
# 47
07-16-2014, 01:11 AM
*yay* another forum revamp, i mean certainly the last ones were so much fun ....right.

@Smirk. The structure of these forums is a straw-men for the inaccessibility of constructive feedback. Tribble Testing, number crunching, and writing it all up takes a lot of time. Quite frankly after 4 years our return on investment has been at a stable minimum.

Most posters don't bother with constructive feedback, since it too often goes by ignored. Hence all thats left is rants. It was the community team that went down the rabbit whole of having rage post seemingly attracting more attention then well reasoned and structured posts.

Overall lack of solid information on many fronts including design intentions and stealth patching do their part. Once more its not the forum or the forumites who are responsible, throwing new paint on it won't fix, what was within the community teams responsibility to maintain and foster.
Joined 06.10
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 676
# 48
07-16-2014, 01:11 AM
Deleted - realised it was unrelated after posting...

Last edited by imruined; 07-16-2014 at 01:14 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 175
# 49
07-16-2014, 05:09 AM
Ah smirk I DO so hope that you remember to give STOKED radio as much attention as priority one since Captain Geko will be on it on Saturday and not “FORGET” like you did last time……..
CVN-65 U.S.S. Enterprise - A ship so badass it survived John McCain.
Cryptic Studios Team
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,201
# 50
07-16-2014, 09:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iconians View Post
*snip*
So, if Al, or Cryptic/PWE in general are responsible for providing a written transcript, what about some STO fan that only speaks Swedish? Are we also responsible for translating the entire interview into Swedish? Hindi? Tagalog? There could be a deaf and blind person out there that still wants the information. Are we responsible for providing an ASL translator to go to their house and translate the interview?

I'm also not trying to put this onto P1. I think the demand of a transcript is unreasonable. I think it would be nice, I think it would be great if they could do it, but I don't think we can demand that they do. As Elijah has said, they would be more than happy to have someone help them in this regard. He's going to investigate the use of technology for this.

In the mean time, there are more than a few people in this thread who are NOT hard of hearing, and would be perfectly capable of doing the transcription work. Why are you not volunteering? For that matter, I am capable of doing the work. Why am I not volunteering? Because I have a full time job, and the free time that I do have, I don't feel like spending transcribing audio interviews. I'm sorry if that makes me a terrible person, but I would guess I am not alone in this regard.



Quote:
Originally Posted by fraghul2000 View Post
Overall I feel that the interviews in those podcasts have become more empty than they used to be. A few months ago it seemed like the interview partners used to drop more information, spoilers, hints or talked about what they were planning to do, stuff that hadn't been talked about anywhere else...now it just feels like a bit of empty chit-chat, repeating things that are already being discussed on the boards for a while or have been dropped elsewhere.
Well, when we revealed things in Podcasts, we got crap for it.
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