Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 61 Ummmm
01-30-2010, 11:45 PM
[quote=Khromag;1807213]Wow, you guys really have no clue. Seriously.

First of all, this game is millions of lines of code.

Think about that. Millions.

I'm a programmer.

---------------------------

I only quoted a little. If I quoted your whole post I think the forum servers would go down next.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 62
01-30-2010, 11:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thlaylie View Post
I can't get past the "retrieving characters" screen, yet the status is "up?"
...cuz its not upside down?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 63
01-30-2010, 11:48 PM
Well it's hard you know to figure out this mess...from this mess:

http://www.businesspundit.com/wp-con...-with-salt.jpg

Especially since the latest crash caused this...server overheated a bit:

http://www.acadweb.wwu.edu/dbrunner/P7040175.JPG
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 64
01-30-2010, 11:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khromag View Post
Wow, you guys really have no clue. Seriously.

First of all, this game is millions of lines of code.

Think about that. Millions.

I'm a programmer. So I know. You can design this whole big structure of logic and interdependency of this part of the code and this part. The client app. The login server, the app that backs ups your character data as you play so a server crash does roll you back minutes or even hours. All those little apps running on all that hardware. All working together to make this game run. All those lines of code written by a bunch of people.

And.. part of it stops working... or starts to lag. Your character or ship starts rubberbanding. You don't get a quest reward. You can't make a transition or get a quest to advance. The skills server won;t respond to a request to display your information.

OMG! WHY! They scramble to figure it out. OMG! WHY!

There isn't a 'master control screen' that points them in detail to what client, line of code, app, buffer, server, or hardware system is causing each issue. It takes a lot if investigation, poring over server logs and such to get any clue what is wrong and how to fix it. None of that is fast, or easy. But they do it. They have people there round the clock to do it if needed.

MMOs are far more complex than a 'simple' computer game like Diablo, or even Call of Duty. The fact that the 'server' isn't a box running a single app to allow you to communicate with other clients.. it's a server farm running hundreds of programs that have to all communicate with each other, pass your bit of traffic off to one another as you move around, buy, sell, trade, get exp, spend skill points, perform missions, etc.... makes this so complex that you really have no idea what any MMO dev/ops staff has to face.

Yeah. This sucks. I'd SO much rather be playing right now. Just like you.

In a perfect world, devs would be able to work on a game until it is as polished as they want. But the real world doesn't work like that. The guys who sign their paychecks are money people and they want their investment to start paying off ASAP. It sucks. Hardcore. I HATE that aspect of the industry. But it is reality.

It's not a matter of just rebooting a box or hitting a reset button. It's easy to feel frustrated. Trust me, they don;t like this any better than you do. I bet you they hate it MORE. This is their baby. Their chance to shine. They HATE looking bad. They HATE the moneygrubbers who stand behind them saying SHIP IT...

If you are going to be angry at someone, be angry at the financial non-geeks who push the devs to ship before they are done. Don't waste your anger at the devs or the guys running the server ops.
We are but mere simple folk my dear scholar!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 65
01-30-2010, 11:50 PM
both the sit and launcher say its down for me ....
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 66
01-30-2010, 11:51 PM
Refer to the very last post by me on this thread for enlightenment
http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...07#post1800307
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 67
01-30-2010, 11:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khromag View Post
Wow, you guys really have no clue. Seriously.

First of all, this game is millions of lines of code.

Think about that. Millions.

I'm a programmer. So I know. You can design this whole big structure of logic and interdependency of this part of the code and this part. The client app. The login server, the app that backs ups your character data as you play so a server crash does roll you back minutes or even hours. All those little apps running on all that hardware. All working together to make this game run. All those lines of code written by a bunch of people.

And.. part of it stops working... or starts to lag. Your character or ship starts rubberbanding. You don't get a quest reward. You can't make a transition or get a quest to advance. The skills server won;t respond to a request to display your information.

OMG! WHY! They scramble to figure it out. OMG! WHY!

There isn't a 'master control screen' that points them in detail to what client, line of code, app, buffer, server, or hardware system is causing each issue. It takes a lot if investigation, poring over server logs and such to get any clue what is wrong and how to fix it. None of that is fast, or easy. But they do it. They have people there round the clock to do it if needed.

MMOs are far more complex than a 'simple' computer game like Diablo, or even Call of Duty. The fact that the 'server' isn't a box running a single app to allow you to communicate with other clients.. it's a server farm running hundrds of programs that have to all communicate with each other, pass your bit of traffic off to one another as you move around, buy, sell, trade, get exp, spend skill points, perform missions, etc.... makes this so complex that you really have no idea what any MMO dev/ops staff has to face.

Yeah. This sucks. I'd SO much rather be playing right now. Just like you.

In a perfect world, devs would be able to work on a game until it is as polished as they want. But the real world doesn;t work like that. The guys who sign their paychecks are money people and they want their investment to start paying off ASAP. It sucks. Hardcore. I HATE that aspect of the industry. But it is reality.

It's not a matter of just rebooting a box or hitting a reset button. It's easy to feel frustrated. Trust me, they don;t like this any better than you do. I bet you they hate it MORE. This is their baby. Their chance to shine. They HATE looking bad. They HATE the moneygrubbers who stand behind them saying SHIP IT...

If you are going to be angry at someone, be angry at the finacial non-geeks who push the devs to ship before they are done. Don't waste your anger at the devs or the guys running the server ops.
I agree with most of what you are saying. I have been involved in information systems since I was very young. Taught my first class when I was 12 to a bunch of CEOs for CLARK (forklift makers). It is not just a simple push of a button to make things work. You have IS operators, net admins, programmers, security professionals and much more that are working in tandum to try and keep this ship moving forward. Sometimes it just takes time to figure out what went wrong and fix it.

I do however think they may be lacking a bit in the problem detection code. A few programs or dedicated server tracking what goes on as far as malfunctions tracking might be lacking. If the problems were able to be pinpointed and dumped quickly to the programmers for code change things might be a little more smooth. I would even like to see a backup server running an AI world trying to search exploits and bad code in the back ground. AI can move alot faster than we can in causing these problems and if they happened on a different subnet not connected to the actual game at all then they could be found there without ever showing thier face in the real game. At that point they could be corrected and patches would be a bit larger to include that extra content that was found bugged without us having to experience it and tell them about it.

Conclusion though from both of our posts is that this is a very complicated situation guys. It is just going to take time to get lined out. Doesnt make it any easier with money grubbing non-techs standing over thier backs pushing them to get this game out just so they can filll thier pockets. Bright side is they are trying to fill thier pockets with a US dollar that is plumiting faster than an asteriod entering earth. So the joke is really on them in the end lol.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:56 AM.