Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 61
02-01-2010, 12:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotDoug
Yeah you're literally doing one story mission for 30 minutes and doing the stupid filler instanced randomized patrol missions for 5 hours to get enough exp to get your next story mission.

What a grind.
So not true. I've only done one patrol mission to completion and I'm almost Lt. Cmdr. I did a few more than that in the beta, until I realized there was enough content to make them unnecessary, and then almost hit Commander off of normal (non-randomly generated) content.

Don't make it sound like it's a grind -- it's just not true.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 62
02-01-2010, 02:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xlcr View Post
I could be incredibly wrong here, but I get the distinct impression that the exploration missions were included because so many fans, from very early on, wanted it. I've been lurking these forums since they opened, and that has always been a big request from the fan base.

However, I think the problem is that either the fans didn't specify their desire well enough, or Cryptic didn't fully understand the request.

The fans said: "We want to explore."

And that's exactly what they got.

However, exploration isn't a correct description of what the fans wanted. They wanted adventures that result from exploration.

I've said this before, but the primary misconception that resulted in exploration missions is that people think that Star Trek is about exploration. It's not. Starfleet is about exploration. There's a subtle, but important distinction between the two. Starfleet is about exploring strange new worlds, etc, etc.

Star Trek, on the other hand, is about adventures in outer space. I'm sure there are billions of routine exploration missions that happen in Starfleet, but we don't watch those on Star Trek, because it is boring. On Star Trek, we see the exploration missions in which things go wrong. We see the adventures. We watch the Enterprise get overtaken by androids, or we watch Picard get stolen by a probe and then have to live his entire life as an alien (great episode by the way). We don't, however, see the 500 anomalies that the Enterprise investigated between those episodes. We don't see the thousand plant samples they take for the scientists to study the molecular structure.

Again Starfleet=Exploration. Star Trek = Adventure. There is a difference, and I think that difference is what's causing many players to feel like something's missing.

Don't get me wrong. This isn't a dig on Cryptic. I love the game, and I actually enjoy the exploration missions. I feel like they brought what people asked for. However, I think the spirit of the request may have been overlooked. Whether it was overlooked by fans or by cryptic or both, I don't know.

I have faith that, over time and updates, we'll see more exploration that results in grand adventures. Until then, I consider the exploration missions just a little added flavor to the game. I personally enjoy them, but I understand why others don't.
Got to agree with you an I, too, enjoy the game, however. What's missing is the adventure. Example: The Episode 'Shoreleave' from TOS. A simple planetary survey prior to some R and R for the crew...Game equivelant of scan 5 plant samples...Turns deadly when whatever the crew imagines pops up. The planet turns out to be a huge 'amusment park' for an advanced alien species. "the Apple" from TOS (Been re watching the remastered versions of these of late.) another survey/contact mission turns deadly when the governing computer takes a 'mild dislike' to the enterprise's intrusion.

The missions need just a tad more depth. "Escort the vulcan ambassadore" was good. Enjoyed it very much. Just haven't found many equivalently deep missions like it as yet.

On a related note...Any plans for Risa or Vulcan or Argelius? Ports of call from the various series' but sorta lifeless in the game.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 63
02-01-2010, 02:31 AM
Honestly with the lack of depth in the missions I don't see how they couldn't make a copy for the Klingons but thats another discussion.

*snicker* hmm...

*sits and chats with Kirk on the 1701* Indeed. Lack of depth. Yes, and what do you think about this Mr Kirk?
Kirk: ....KHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNN!!!!! !

but seriously, your entirely wrong. The problem is they haven't really put much into the 1-14 area except repeatables. The episodic content in there is mostly a generic starfleet run-to and fro, but when you get to the city of nevermore....everything becomes clear.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 64
02-01-2010, 02:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xlcr View Post
I could be incredibly wrong here, but I get the distinct impression that the exploration missions were included because so many fans, from very early on, wanted it. I've been lurking these forums since they opened, and that has always been a big request from the fan base.

However, I think the problem is that either the fans didn't specify their desire well enough, or Cryptic didn't fully understand the request.

The fans said: "We want to explore."

And that's exactly what they got.

However, exploration isn't a correct description of what the fans wanted. They wanted adventures that result from exploration.

I've said this before, but the primary misconception that resulted in exploration missions is that people think that Star Trek is about exploration. It's not. Starfleet is about exploration. There's a subtle, but important distinction between the two. Starfleet is about exploring strange new worlds, etc, etc.

Star Trek, on the other hand, is about adventures in outer space. I'm sure there are billions of routine exploration missions that happen in Starfleet, but we don't watch those on Star Trek, because it is boring. On Star Trek, we see the exploration missions in which things go wrong. We see the adventures. We watch the Enterprise get overtaken by androids, or we watch Picard get stolen by a probe and then have to live his entire life as an alien (great episode by the way). We don't, however, see the 500 anomalies that the Enterprise investigated between those episodes. We don't see the thousand plant samples they take for the scientists to study the molecular structure.

Again Starfleet=Exploration. Star Trek = Adventure. There is a difference, and I think that difference is what's causing many players to feel like something's missing.

Don't get me wrong. This isn't a dig on Cryptic. I love the game, and I actually enjoy the exploration missions. I feel like they brought what people asked for. However, I think the spirit of the request may have been overlooked. Whether it was overlooked by fans or by cryptic or both, I don't know.

I have faith that, over time and updates, we'll see more exploration that results in grand adventures. Until then, I consider the exploration missions just a little added flavor to the game. I personally enjoy them, but I understand why others don't.
I think you are probably right. Sometimes people describe what they want the wrong way, and then are upset when they get exactly what they asked for, but isn't what they wanted altogether.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 65
02-01-2010, 02:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thereij View Post
I'm sitting here with my wife. We've just completed one of the many, many "Patrol the XXXXX Sector" missions. She turns, and asks me: "So, what are we doing?"

Me: What do you mean?
Her: Well, I assume that I'm leveling up for some reason, is there any endgame?
Me: I'm not sure.
Her: Well, it seems that all we're doing is going around exploring and doing diplomatic missions.
Me: Come to think of it, in all the movies and TV shows, that's really all they did. We were just fortunate that the Enterprise et al happened to have very eventful cruises.
Her: So, what's the point?
Me: I'm not really sure.

It's very confusing to hail starfleet and receive the same missions over and over. I get that the developers want the patrol and exploration missions to be repeatable, but for what purpose?

Am I missing the point? Please enlighten me. I've reserved the collector's edition of the game, but if this is all there is (and nothing more), why should I spend that money on STO when there are several other options out there?
The point? It's a video game, the point is to entertain you! Are you not entertained? Are you not entertained?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 66
02-01-2010, 03:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xlcr View Post
I could be incredibly wrong here, but I get the distinct impression that the exploration missions were included because so many fans, from very early on, wanted it. I've been lurking these forums since they opened, and that has always been a big request from the fan base.

However, I think the problem is that either the fans didn't specify their desire well enough, or Cryptic didn't fully understand the request.

The fans said: "We want to explore."

And that's exactly what they got.

However, exploration isn't a correct description of what the fans wanted. They wanted adventures that result from exploration.

I've said this before, but the primary misconception that resulted in exploration missions is that people think that Star Trek is about exploration. It's not. Starfleet is about exploration. There's a subtle, but important distinction between the two. Starfleet is about exploring strange new worlds, etc, etc.

Star Trek, on the other hand, is about adventures in outer space. I'm sure there are billions of routine exploration missions that happen in Starfleet, but we don't watch those on Star Trek, because it is boring. On Star Trek, we see the exploration missions in which things go wrong. We see the adventures. We watch the Enterprise get overtaken by androids, or we watch Picard get stolen by a probe and then have to live his entire life as an alien (great episode by the way). We don't, however, see the 500 anomalies that the Enterprise investigated between those episodes. We don't see the thousand plant samples they take for the scientists to study the molecular structure.

Again Starfleet=Exploration. Star Trek = Adventure. There is a difference, and I think that difference is what's causing many players to feel like something's missing.

Don't get me wrong. This isn't a dig on Cryptic. I love the game, and I actually enjoy the exploration missions. I feel like they brought what people asked for. However, I think the spirit of the request may have been overlooked. Whether it was overlooked by fans or by cryptic or both, I don't know.

I have faith that, over time and updates, we'll see more exploration that results in grand adventures. Until then, I consider the exploration missions just a little added flavor to the game. I personally enjoy them, but I understand why others don't.
Love this post. This line of thinking is exactly what i was thinking and could not express verbally!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 67
02-01-2010, 03:47 AM
You make a point, but while doing the exploration of a sector. The mission where you have to explore three systems, I was fairly happy with the outcome.

On one it was just scan some rocks, and some references to an episode.

But on other ones while exploring, there was a surprise attack by some other race looking for same thing.


Of coarse the Hud made it not much of a surprise, but there strength and charging factor where surprising. You get used to the easy ground stuff, then when it gets hard it is a bit surprising.


There are lots of elements to interactive story telling, immersion is a big one. When you watch a series for the first time the characters don't mean much to you, they are unknown characters, but after a couple seasons, you develop a feeling of empathy for people in the story, and care what happens to them.

A good MMO can translate that into missions with good story telling. Some of the little things like healing wounded citizens, when it was not in the task menu, was a nice add to another mission. Its the little details that give it an immersion factor.

Also surprises and unexpected things happening are always good, the Hud makes that hard, since it tells you what is going on.

I like the game.

The people saying it is bugged, I don't think have played it, sure it has room to grow, that is a good thing, it is easy to imagine where it can expand. But I have only seen one bug, in hours of play. A few things still need to be polished up or complete I would guess, but the code base seems pretty stable.

I expect the game will expand like other MMOs do, where more story line characters or recurring themes are added. And the depth of variety and surprise increases.


On a final note, some of the people that complain may do it for other reasons, there are people that make up things and are not honest, most of them were the bad guys in Star Trek, and saying the game is buggy I think is disingenuous.

The server issue is the only thing that hurts the launch, if they get that fixed, they should be in good shape.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 68
02-01-2010, 04:14 AM
Bah, Picard was also whining about exploration In the movie "First contact" he is whining to Riker, that Enterprise is forced to map nebula, while rest of fleet fights Borg... it's just like in movies
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 69
02-01-2010, 04:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thereij View Post
Agreed, they are. But even then, somehow, they are usually tied into the greater story. Right now, in my log, I have two exploration missions, three patrol missions, two defend XXXXX sector block missions, Starbase 24, the PVP intro quest and "The Kufah'Magh'.

I'm assuming "The Kuvah'Magh' is the "story" quest line that will eventually lead to endgame. All the others are filler and fluff. This is everything I can get at the moment. I've already completed one of the exploration missions and one of the defend missions, along with the defense of Starbase 24.

SUGGESTION: Once a quest is completed for the first time, make the quest accessible from a "Duty" Database, where people can go to request "Duty Assignments" if they feel the need to farm XP, Badges or items.

The question not being answered by the storyline is WHY? I want to be immersed in this story. Why have the Klingons suddenly broken away from Starfleet? Yes, there is a brief explanation in the opening cinematic, but why not drive deeper into the heart of it? Why have the Orion and Gorn joined in with the Klingons? Why is it important that I complete these missions against them? Why are certain sectors under attack from the Klingon Empire? For what reason are these systems desired? Why is it necessary for me to spend my time patrolling them?

Now, the exploration missions: What is the point? Right now, it seems the exploration missions are there to farm gear. Each successful exploration tour awards badges, which can be used to purchase gear that is far better than what most can get at the earlier stages. Beyond this, what is the point?

At the beginning of this game, the storyline is almost non-existent. People will tire of the Patrol and Exploration missions. They will ask for a story. Right now, the game does not deliver in that department.
I do find it rather amusing that the mission you mention being in your log actually sorta deals with your suggestion/quesiton Of course, part of that is from already knowing the how and why.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 70
02-01-2010, 05:08 AM
Personally, like someone said earlier, repeatable missions should be marked as such (in a star trek way) e.g. "Regular Duty Assignements" and accessible from particular sources. for example, in the episodes list, the "Patrol the..." missions should have the prefix "RDA :" to the name short for (Regular Duty Assignment)

The more in depth storyline missions, should also be marked accordingly e.g. "Story: "

-----------------------------------

Btw OP: As for the question about why the factions are doing what they are doing, the storyline actually tells you as you progress (I won't give away details, suffice it to say that they began attacking the federation for a specific reason).

"What's the point" is a very difficult question to answer with regards to an MMO, as I'm sure you are aware. It's difficult to answer because words don't fully do the genre justice. To fully understand "why" people pay and play MMO's, one has to experience it. I say this because a few years ago a friend of mine asked the same question, and I answered it to the best of my abilities. However, it wasn't until he tried the MMO for a few weeks that he fully understood why.
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