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# 41
02-01-2010, 04:23 PM
This is why deathmatch is a terrible idea for any mmo. Any kind of objective to complete to win would render this sort of thing pointless to do.
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# 42
02-01-2010, 04:31 PM
The game needs to be balanced to be fun.

The three outcomes in any contest are win, lose or tie. It's obvious that a player with cloaking can make certain that they will never lose. That is a broken power.
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# 43
02-01-2010, 04:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dullorb View Post
The game needs to be balanced to be fun.

The three outcomes in any contest are win, lose or tie. It's obvious that a player with cloaking can make certain that they will never lose. That is a broken power.
That is not true...unless you put in time limits and its only win or lose...even then we have to get mor ekills first before we could grief like that..and thats certainly not a given.

But I assure you...Ive seen plenty of Klingon loses and we have the means to cloak in everyone of them. Ive been on the lossin side morethan Ive been on the winning...and all my PvP has been Klingon.

Things to remember:
Cloaking wins nothing...we cant capture while cloaked, we cant kill while cloaked. Everything we do to win requires we be uncloaked. Cloaking only provides a means for dictating when we fight...and in some cases when we break off from the fight. But once cloaked, weare essentially out of the match until we return.

Cloaking has never one a PvP match...fighting and capturing does. Once a fight between a Kling and a Fed starts, its a normal figt. You shoot us, we shoot you and somene goes boom! We hit hard, but we are tin cans, you generally hit for less but can tank. We cloak and become limited to hull repairs only...while we are cloaked, you are healing shields and hull...plus you likly have more crew to maintain repairs longer under combat. So when we come out of cloak, who is in a better condition?

Oh but wait sme Feds say. When the first BoP is cloaked and healing, Im being attacked by another BoP who is fresh(er)...that may be true, but that means you are being defeated by superior numbers or suprior group tactics. That should be more difficult for you...just be happy they werent smart enough to attack you at once. If so, then with muliple BoPs you wouldnt have the time to complain, there is a good chance you'd be an ionized hulk...and rightfully so.
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# 44
02-01-2010, 04:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judge_Bloodgood View Post
Glad to see he didn't care enough to come screaming into the post.

Again we need timers on these matches that award the win to the one with the most points or kills.
Problem with that would be as soon as Klingons got more kills, they could cloak and hide in a corner for the rest of the time for a guaranteed win.
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# 45
02-01-2010, 04:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judge_Bloodgood View Post
So I am making this post as I sit in what is now a 20 minute long PvP match. Here is a link to a thread and screen shot of the chat. http://gamesnafu.com/smf/index.php?topic=967.0 (right click and view for larger pic)They are just staying cloaked and refusing to fight.

WE NEED TIME LIMITS ON PVP MATCHES CRYPTIC!!!!
Yea i wonder why they didnt want to attack your 5 cruisers in a ball.
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# 46
02-01-2010, 04:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cocoa-jin View Post
There is nothing wrong wih the Fed ball...there is nothing wrong with cloaking tactics. Both tactics play to the strength of the ship types that employ them.

The only reason their are complaints is because they work well and make it difficult for some impatient, self-centered, spoiled gamer brat to get is easy kill/win.

That is it...give them a challenge and its a recipe for claiming the other players are the villians, the griefers, the exploiters, etc...all because that player cant get it all, right now, on his terms(which is usually fast, easy and on a silver platter).
There is not a problem with fed ball. The problem with cloak is that a Fed team, working together and maintaining formation, has no way to hunt down Klingons hiding cloaked. As it stands now, ONE side has a way to guarantee that they WILL NOT lose. They might not win, but if they stay cloaked and far away, they CAN NOT LOSE. To fix this, one of two things needs to happen. Either Feds need some method of winning with 0 Klingon involvement, or they need some way to make sure they can engage the Klingons (aka, detect cloaked Klingon ships at range and be able to hunt them down).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloodlance View Post
Yea i wonder why they didnt want to attack your 5 cruisers in a ball.
So one side using an effective strategy makes it fine for the other side to say "ok, if you ever want this match to end, fly away and commit suicide, otherwise we'll never uncloak"? That is TOTALLY a reasonable stance to take.
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# 47
02-01-2010, 05:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vesstair View Post
As it stands now, ONE side has a way to guarantee that they WILL NOT lose. They might not win, but if they stay cloaked and far away, they CAN NOT LOSE.
How is this true? There is no time limit PvP matches. If we stay cloaked no one wins or loses...its a stalmate.

Are you talking about win or lose in terms of individual engagements...like KlingA cant lose because he chooses not to fight so he doesnt run the risk of being killed? A Fed can do that to, just high impulse away from the fight and run off until eternity in the other direction until you dont even pop up on our screens.

Have you played Capture and Hold? We lose straight out if we remain cloaked. We cant capture or hold an objective under cloak.

If all Feds just high impulsed away from the battle area for a 15 kill death match they'd be able to "not lose" also I guess.

Anybody can bow out of the fight if they choose. feds can hunt us down though . Feds can send out hunter-killer groups. Get groups of ships with a science vessel snuggled inside to troll around on high AUX looking for cloaked ships. So instead of 1 or 2 Fed-balls, have 3-5 Fed balls of 3-5 ships. Keep each group in high impulse range to help out any ball that gets a Kling to pop out of the cloak bush. Tag em and bag em..because once he is exposed, your attack will prevent high impulse and he'll be in close range.

I got de-cloaked for the first time last night...right next to a Fed ball in T1...i didnt get far at all. And if you dont get us, rest assured that you were frustraing us the whole match as we turn tail and run to keep from getting caught in the drag net.
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# 48
02-01-2010, 05:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cocoa-jin View Post
How is this true? There is no time limit PvP matches. If we stay cloaked no one wins or loses...its a stalmate.
What don't you understand? As I said, if Klingons simply stay cloaked, they guarantee they don't lose. In fact, I said "they might not win, but they CAN NOT LOSE". Stalemate still is not a loss.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cocoa-jin View Post
[Are you talking about win or lose in terms of individual engagements...like KlingA cant lose because he chooses not to fight so he doesnt run the risk of being killed? A Fed can do that to, just high impyulse away from the fight and run off until eternity in the other direction until you dont even pop on our screens.

Have you played Capture and Hold? We lose straight out if we remain cloaked. We cant capture or hold an objective under cloak.
I am not talking about individual engagements. I'm talking about the entire match in Arena PVP. A fed can NOT do the same thing, since a person can still be seen at full impulse. If one Fed runs at full impulse, then one Klingon can chase that Fed, and the other Klingons can move to cut him off when he turns at the edge of the map.

As to capture and hold... that is not what I'm talking about. There is a way to win capture and hold without actually fighting the Klingons. I would only play CaH maps, except for the fact that I actually want to be able to fight AND win the map... in my experience, it is always EITHER fly around the map and fight, meaning my team loses, or stay in one spot, actually CAPTURE the points, and defend them... which means little to no fighting.
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# 49
02-01-2010, 05:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cocoa-jin View Post
There is nothing wrong wih the Fed ball...there is nothing wrong with cloaking tactics. Both tactics play to the strength of the ship types that employ them.

The only reason their are complaints is because they work well and make it difficult for some impatient, self-centered, spoiled gamer brat to get is easy kill/win.

That is it...give them a challenge and its a recipe for claiming the other players are the villians, the griefers, the exploiters, etc...all because that player cant get it all, right now, on his terms(which is usually fast, easy and on a silver platter).

i think that there is quite alot of what you just describe. I tried pvp 2 times and had a good time flying around on the watch for a possible BoP decloaking on me. everytime I could chase one, hit him, then he strategicaly cloaked to make a turn and reapear from another angle. It was fun on a 1 on 1 basis. sometimes I got killed, other it was him. I don't see the point of any sides holding grouds, where is the fun in that. And no, i'm not in a cruiser, just science so it's even more fun when facing a honorable klingon.
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# 50
02-01-2010, 05:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vesstair View Post
What don't you understand? As I said, if Klingons simply stay cloaked, they guarantee they don't lose. In fact, I said "they might not win, but they CAN NOT LOSE". Stalemate still is not a loss.



I am not talking about individual engagements. I'm talking about the entire match in Arena PVP. A fed can NOT do the same thing, since a person can still be seen at full impulse. If one Fed runs at full impulse, then one Klingon can chase that Fed, and the other Klingons can move to cut him off when he turns at the edge of the map.

As to capture and hold... that is not what I'm talking about. There is a way to win capture and hold without actually fighting the Klingons. I would only play CaH maps, except for the fact that I actually want to be able to fight AND win the map... in my experience, it is always EITHER fly around the map and fight, meaning my team loses, or stay in one spot, actually CAPTURE the points, and defend them... which means little to no fighting.

So stay in the Fed ball...it works. If there isnt enough action, go to another session...you lose nothing by leaving. Sometimes the enemy doesnt come to fight...so be it.

Is it the action and fight you want...or the session win...they arent always part of the same goal. I personally enjoy a stromg personal performance. Im about achieving the objective and/or the most kills for the least amount of loses...sometimes it means against over-whelming numbers or poor team mates, that i have to adapt my over-all goals for the session. Winning the session doest always mean getting all the clean kils i can...getting the most clean kills doesnt mean e win the map.

If there is nothing there in the map for you to gain/enjoy...then seek out a map that does. This map, this session doesnt have to happen...if they dont fight, leave. There is no rewards lost or gained by anyone with the map's win, lose or stalemate.
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