Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
02-02-2010, 01:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SquadraCorse
All they have to do is cloak, get behind you, pop High Yield, hold you with the tractor beam, and spam Fire All until you die.
get polarize hull
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
02-02-2010, 02:45 AM
Acually by default space combat flavours this way.

Klingons does the following:
* Cloak group up and hides.

Federation does the following:
Groups up and starts to search for the Klingons, the Klingons are hiding and cant be found.

That leaves federation with two two options in searching.
Search while going slow in a group this takes ages so
Federation goes to full impulse and starts searching....

So Klingons hides and wait at some point some federation ship will be in range and gets nuked down.
Then the federation ships hits full impulse to get to the combat area, arriving with no power to anything and gets killed.

So now in a worse case federation tries to get back into the fight and arrives on at the time at low power and gets killed....

Or Federation tries to group up after dying and get fly slow with power up to the fight...
Klingons cloak and moves abit and wait for a federation ship to be semi alone and nukes it down.


And that pattern repeats over and over.
So the way to counter that is for the federation create the federation ball, move slow in a group; Now for arguments sake lets pretend they federation manages to hold their calm and move slow in a group. They have a chance!
Then one federation ship gets nuked and the fight is on, but this time federation is ofcourse outnumbered by one.

So basiclly federation needs to learn to get organized, and get the proper skills so that there is a chance to outheal/protect vs an alpha strike; else resistance is futile :p
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
02-02-2010, 04:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReErebos
Acually by default space combat flavours this way.

Klingons does the following:
* Cloak group up and hides.

Federation does the following:
Groups up and starts to search for the Klingons, the Klingons are hiding and cant be found.

That leaves federation with two two options in searching.
Search while going slow in a group this takes ages so
Federation goes to full impulse and starts searching....
"Idiot players lose at PvP" - is that news?

1) You will NOT find Klingons by looking for them. I have no idea why Fed vessels are scouring the map - if you head straight for us, we fly away. Klingons will find you (although sometimes it takes a lot longer than you'd expect with height/speed problems, we also need to find the other klingons and there's a fairly short visual range).
2) There is no point in going full impulse to anywhere - in all likelihood the Klingons are already right next to him, and the map doesn't really have any useful features... where is he going? what does he hope to find there? A pot of gold with a leprechaun guarding it? Inquiring minds need to know!!

The first rule of space/ground PvP is 'get in a group, stay in a group. If/when you respawn, get back in a group'. True for Klingon and Federation players alike. If you violate that rule, then you're on your own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReErebos
So basiclly federation needs to learn to get organized, and get the proper skills so that there is a chance to outheal/protect vs an alpha strike; else resistance is futile :p
It's really not complicated - and the skills required in T2 are not massive. Until there's a klingon cruiser in T2 you really shouldn't be having problems unless you face a fleet team.

As someone pointed out in a different thread:
"Open beta was a disaster for Klingons in T2, without a cruiser we lost nearly every T2 arena. The only thing to change between open beta and now, is you..."

[although the stupid PvP queue is different, and is absolutely wrecking a large percentage of PvP in T2 - to the exclusive detriment of the Federation team, but that has nothing to do with 'omg cloak' or 'bops from hell' or whatever]
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
02-02-2010, 04:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by
You do make a good point, the Klingons have a distinct advantage with their ability to cloak. This is canon. If you recall the episode of TNG with the alternate reality where the Klingons didn't make peace with the Federation, the Federation was getting [i
annhiliated[/i].


Those were K'vort Class Battle Cruisers, not "Bird's of Prey".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNEJ6...eature=related

Picard mentions this at about the 6:10 mark. Battle Cruisers...Plus, the Enterprise was in "tank" mode really, just sorta sitting there drawing fire and protecting the C...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
02-02-2010, 05:46 AM
I played ALOT of pvp during the beta phases with my science vessel and the only thing i can say is that at level 16, all ships maxed klingons and fed alike seemed balanced. The major deciders of the battles were how the players used their ships. It takes some effort of coordination to get 10 klingon ships to decloak and alpha strike the right targets. This effort should be, and is usually rewarded, but if the feds use just as much effort to counter attack instead of spreading out, then it becomes what seems to be an even fight. So much depends on teamwork, and supporting each other whether by focus firing a target instead of just spamming spacebar or picking the right teammate to transfer shield power to so they can outlast the initial volley.

An organized klingon team will always destroy unorganized feds, and the reverse is true, and in my opinion from what i've seen it also seems balanced when it comes to organized team vs organized team.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
02-02-2010, 06:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superpower34 View Post
Those were K'vort Class Battle Cruisers, not "Bird's of Prey".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNEJ6...eature=related

Picard mentions this at about the 6:10 mark. Battle Cruisers...Plus, the Enterprise was in "tank" mode really, just sorta sitting there drawing fire and protecting the C...
Actually, I was referring to the condition of the war in general - he pulled the captain of the ship aside to inform them that he normally would not allow them to go back, but the fact of the matter is the Federation was getting it's butt proverbially kicked.

Quote:
"The war is going very badly for the Federation, far worse than is generally known. Starfleet Command believes that defeat is inevitable. Within six months, we may have no choice but to surrender."
"Are you saying all this may be a result of our arrival here?"
"One more ship will make no difference in the here and now, but twenty-two years ago, one ship could have stopped this war before it started."
- Picard and Garrett in the alternate timeline
(Stolen from Memory Alpha. So you can have a direct quote.)

Man, some people don't know an offhand moment of humor when they see one, huh?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
02-02-2010, 06:48 AM
there are several issues

*all the klingons are flying escorts. if they can rapidly destroy the fed ships they are dandy. but they can fall extremely rapidly in turn, they don't have any staying power.

*half of the feds are mounting MKk III (or worse) gear.. most klingons will be mounting Mk IV. problems are obvious.

*fed inexperience - as time goes on, your average klingon is far more likely than your average fed to know what they are doing in PVP. it only takes one or two newbs on a team to wreck your chances.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
02-02-2010, 07:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadlyShoe
there are several issues

*all the klingons are flying escorts. if they can rapidly destroy the fed ships they are dandy. but they can fall extremely rapidly in turn, they don't have any staying power.

*half of the feds are mounting MKk III (or worse) gear.. most klingons will be mounting Mk IV. problems are obvious.

*fed inexperience - as time goes on, your average klingon is far more likely than your average fed to know what they are doing in PVP. it only takes one or two newbs on a team to wreck your chances.
Experience is by far the key. In OB I can tell both sides were inexperienced. In headstart, I can tell MOST feds are inexperience and most Klingons played in OB/CB and PVPed. There are exceptions.

What I don't see Feds doing (HEALING).

1. Engineering team BO ability (Level 1)
2. Hazard Emitters BO ability (Level 1)

My BOP is out healing some Fed damage, and I don't have any boost to healing.

Big mistake I see feds do:
Sensor jam on the attack. It is a defensive device not an offensive one. If you use jam, reverse directions immediatly. if you keep your same course as most do, I just estimate your path and when you come out of jam blast you since you did not change to evade. Use it when I come behind you. Jam me, and evade.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
02-02-2010, 07:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lrdasmodeous View Post
Their advantage is that they don't need to have any sort of coordination or heavy-tactics to succeed because their ships are all enormous glass cannons that dwarf damage output of the federation ships. Whereas the Federation players need to work together and use some pretty heavy strategy to beat them.
This is why I don't PvP anymore, its fine if you have a static group on vent and you co-ordinate every move, every sign of enemy contact and co-ordinate attacks/stuns/roots/Mes/etc to maximum effect, but in a 'random' group where you can't voice chat or form incredibly fast tactics and strategies on the fly, you have no chance in PvP especially against veteran PvPers or worse, an opposing foe that is purely built for PvP and the Klingons are essentially just that.

Do the klinks need nerfs? Wholehearted yes they do, hopefully soon before the PvP whine crowd arrives.

Another issue is that people PvP with essentially PvE gear on.....thats another big mistake. If the feds queue up for PvP, make sure you have some BO that have highly useful PvP abilities such as detecting cloaks etc...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
02-02-2010, 08:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonphase View Post
Do the klinks need nerfs? Wholehearted yes they do, hopefully soon before the PvP whine crowd arrives.
I wholeheartedly disagree on this one for t1 and t2 Haven't played enough t3 to answer.

In t1 Feds have better ground gear, Klingons have better space gear. That is a gear issue, not a nerf.

In t2 Feds have cruisers Klingons don't That is a fed advantage. If the fed cruisers actaully took engineering teams and hazard emitters and sat in a group with all cruisers targeting the escorts ready to heal them, and science ships ready to extend shields, then the fed escorts would survive the alpha.

The problem is not mismatch ships, it is tactics. Klingons learned this in OB as we died LOTS of times.

Assist the escorts and let them chose the target to hit. If the fed cruisers are targeting the fed escorts, just assist their target. Keep an eye on your team and heal as needed. Organized or not, if everyone followed basic team tactics they will do much better.

When the feds heal each other and fight as a team, usually they roll over the Klingons. Right now Feds are not organized. That happend to Klingons in Beta.

Ive sat in games with no grouping. All I have to do is watch what my target is targeting and if they need help, throw a hazard emitter or engineering team to heal. Fed dies and player who is on my side but not my team lives.
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