Ensign
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 12
# 91
08-25-2014, 10:17 AM
Send Harry Kim after it.
Captain
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 756
# 92
08-25-2014, 10:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by therealfluffy View Post
I never felt comfortable knowing that the original Harry Kim was left dead, frozen and floating in space in the Delta Quadrant. He was the one person who most eagerly wanted to get back to Earth but he never got to see his homeworld again. Now that X2 will give us an Iconian gateway to the Delta Quadrant, how about we go back there in a mission and retrieve his body and bring it back to Earth for a proper funeral?
After rewatching the episode on Netflix, I noticed a flaw in your overall analysis. Although the ship was split into two, the episode never talked about which one was the original. Regardless about which ship was alpha, the premise was to merge both ships into one.

Alpha-Harry Kim and Beta-Harry Kim are technically the original.

Alpha-Naomi Wildman and Beta-Naomi Wildman are technically the original.

Since there is information missing, you could technically reverse your argument. Which ship contained the original crew members? As a result of being split into two, did they both cease to be the original?

*shrugs*

Who knows?

Its a paradox.

Last edited by venkou; 08-25-2014 at 10:35 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,291
# 93
08-25-2014, 11:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by keshmarch View Post
Send Harry Kim after it.
This actually makes perfect sense...

Ensign Kim (He will always... ALWAYS be ensign Kim)... You failed to seal a hull-breach... Go clean up your mess...
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Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 351
# 94
08-25-2014, 11:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by venkou View Post
After rewatching the episode on Netflix, I noticed a flaw in your overall analysis. Although the ship was split into two, the episode never talked about which one was the original.
Actually it's not my analysis. It's the consensus of the Trek community on memory-alpha and is reflected in the article about Harry Kim there.

My personal opinion on this is that it wouldn't make sense to kill off the whole original crew that early in the series and then have copies continuing the journey. It's also a nice plot twist to sacrifice the undamaged Voyager and save the damaged one. So even if it wasn't explicitly mentioned in the episode, I tend to agree with the Trek community on this.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,977
# 95
08-25-2014, 11:14 AM
Who cares. When the temporal agents get off their butts and fix all the incursions in Voyager they'll be lucky to have even gotten home yet.

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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,742
# 96
08-25-2014, 11:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by therealfluffy View Post
Actually it's not my analysis. It's the consensus of the Trek community on memory-alpha and is reflected in the article about Harry Kim there.

My personal opinion on this is that it wouldn't make sense to kill off the whole original crew that early in the series and then have copies continuing the journey. It's also a nice plot twist to sacrifice the undamaged Voyager and save the damaged one. So even if it wasn't explicitly mentioned in the episode, I tend to agree with the Trek community on this.
It would have been a nicer plot twist if damage to the Voyager lasted beyond one episode. But yeah, I noticed that in the episode, too.
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,276
# 97
08-25-2014, 01:42 PM
I'll throw in my two cents. I just watched that episode last week.

Real-world physics and some logical inconsistencies aside, there are still some logical conclusions that can be drawn out.

1) When Harry was blown out through the hull breach, it was from the out-of-phase Voyager. This is demonstrated because the Vidiians were able to attack the undamaged Voyager but couldn't detect the damaged one. Furthermore, the damaged Voyager was relatively undamaged from the effects of the point-blank explosion of two ships.

Reasonable to expect that Harry's body was out-of-phase at the time and may have remained out-of-phase. If that's true, his body would not have been damaged from Voyager's explosion.

However, being out-of-phase in deep space, it seems unlikely that the body would ever be recovered.

2) There wasn't a lot left when Voyager self-destructed. It took out the Vidiian ship, whose own warp core breach upon destruction would have added to the forces of detonation significantly. We're talking very, very small, very burned pieces. Maybe near-atomization.

If Harry's body didn't remain out-of-phase, I'm not sure that his body would have cleared the area of destruction. If not, he would have been cremated instantly. I'm not even going to try to do the math to figure out what the velocity was or how far away the body had to be to survive the explosion intact. It's plausible, though.

If he was ejected with enough force to carry him clear of the later explosion, or if the explosion added more force to increase his velocity, then his body would be moving fast enough to be carried far away from the location very quickly. That makes it even less likely that his body could be found that many years later, intact or otherwise.

3) The damaged Voyager couldn't return to normal space until its' 'quantum duplicate' was destroyed. But in the case of Harry's body, the living duplicate was never destroyed. Alive Harry passed through the interface to damaged Voyager and returned to normal space with it (somehow). Dead Harry was never caught in the explosion and could have remained out-of-phase.

The recovery and burial is a touching idea, but not very realistic even for Star Trek. I would admit, though, that if the body was out-of-phase and could be located somehow, that it might be more likely to be found intact than if it were caught in the explosion.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,078
# 98
08-26-2014, 10:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hravik View Post
PLOT TWIST, he's now a Kobali.
I really, really like this idea.

I also favor having something like, say, a relative of Tolian Soran or Guinan turning up as a Liberated Borg.

Perhaps one of Soran's children, his wife, or Guinan's son. All were mentioned on the shows and the simplest explanation for any of them is that they were assimilated.

However with Liberated Borg turning up, well... Borg don't age.

Might be really cool if Soran's Liberated Borg relative discovers that there's a piece of Dr. Soran in the Nexus (according to producers, Guinan and Soran had echoes in the Nexus as a result of a transporter accident when the Enterprise-B beamed them over) and could set off a reason why the Nexus becomes a plot point again.
Ensign
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 12
# 99
08-26-2014, 11:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhirtesc View Post
Or, he could have been rescued by an alien race, and over the years, he's turned Thomas Riker and is now evil. Do you want to deal with a guy like that?
YES! I'm good to go taking on evil Harry Kim!
Ensign
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 12
# 100
08-26-2014, 11:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stoleviathan99 View Post
I really, really like this idea.

I also favor having something like, say, a relative of Tolian Soran or Guinan turning up as a Liberated Borg.

Perhaps one of Soran's children, his wife, or Guinan's son. All were mentioned on the shows and the simplest explanation for any of them is that they were assimilated.

However with Liberated Borg turning up, well... Borg don't age.

Might be really cool if Soran's Liberated Borg relative discovers that there's a piece of Dr. Soran in the Nexus (according to producers, Guinan and Soran had echoes in the Nexus as a result of a transporter accident when the Enterprise-B beamed them over) and could set off a reason why the Nexus becomes a plot point again.
Now that you bring up the point of Ensign Kim's velocity upon exiting Voyager via hull breach... It seems unlikely that he was ejected at a high enough velocity to escape Voyagers local gravitational and electromagnetic field. Objects in space are still attracted to one another in the absence of another force acting on it. Could be that Ensign Kim was blown out only to be drawn back to Voyagers hull...
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