Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 101
02-02-2010, 11:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by deathkittin
Quote:
Originally Posted by someGit View Post
AO started selling credits? ...Or do you mean points...like Cryptic?


Either way, I think I agree with you... They might as well just sell the credits themselves...except that it would undermine the credibility of the game's economy, which is what a lot of players come to MMO's for...

As long as it's lawless communists that are making money off of credit selling, the game company not only retains credibility, it becomes as much a victim as you are...

Hmmmm
NCsoft have an "agreement" with the sellers in their home country Korea (the US office takes its orders from them) to turn a blind eye in exchange for a cut of the profits for this precise reason. It's totally legal, totally deniable (which they do loudly when anyone calls them on the evidence and delete anything associated with it) and the only way in which it is bad for them as a business is the PR side if someone manages to expose them good and properly - in the end they have an obligation to shareholders to go for the course that enables maximum amount of profit, morals don't come into it.

Especially when it comes to games, which non-gamers rarely could care less about (the same reason why companies can get away with this kind of stuff with no regulation from governments, games are just not high in priorities whereas if TV did similar they would be up in arms. It's exactly the same reason why governments haven't done anything about nVidia bribing some developers to exclusively support their cards better "The way it's meant to be played" scheme than.competitors (ATI/AMD), but when Microsoft (which pretty much everyone uses some kind of product from, especially governments who are even still using internet explorer 6 a lot of the time) engages in anti-competitive measures it very quickly turns into anti-trust time in US and EU...

Needless to say if I ever find out Cryptic/Atari engage in similar practices (they are tarred slightly by their former affiliation with NCsoft) I'll make sure as hell people know through my own contacts.
On this note, I found this whilst googling the Chinese "gold" selling company in question using IGN's name (seemingly because it's a recognised/trusted brand to do with games in the US and China has no international copyright enforcement laws - you get interesting details about the company if you enter their URLS onto http://dnsstuff.com WHOIS by the way, seems they don't even bother to hide their details):

It's from a developer at warhammer online apparently: http://onlinegamesareanichemarket.wo...ng-we-will-go/
Quote:
[..] let me tell you this. I’ve been offered “a piece of the action” both personally and corporately in the past if I will either turn a blind eye or help them in their actions. This would have netted me and/or Mythic a very, very tidy sum, far more than we would see from box sales. My answer was and always will remain the same:

Go to hell.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 102
02-02-2010, 11:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GM_Marauder
I just wanted to add a quick note that very soon we will be adding the ability to report players for spamming/gold farming directly from the forums and web site. We are testing this functionality now and will be adding it very soon.

We are also working on more things to implement that will be seamless to the players but willl help the GMs out tremendously.

I will be adding updates as I get them. By working together we can help fight this and make your playing experience better.

Cheers
Phil

Director of CS
Thank you, that's all we ask. I can see the spam just by going to my PM inbox, I prefer to fight bad guys ingame not spammers.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 103
02-03-2010, 12:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_K.C. View Post
Thank you, that's all we ask. I can see the spam just by going to my PM inbox, I prefer to fight bad guys ingame not spammers.
Not really no, that tactic will not and has never worked as these people put quite eloquently: (a former GM at blizzard)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kosh800 View Post
you also run into the problem of rerouting their IPs through Indonesia, Australia, and even the Cuban Isles (true story).

To be honest I was never in the higher echelon of Blizz communication so I have no idea why they didn't just outright ban IP access from China, or Asia for that matter ... so I can't really tell you why they didn't.

All I can tell you is that it was a giant pain int he ass to track down and ID the problem makers. That was with a staff of 30 or more people at 24 hours 7 days a week. Most of our database searches were done over night as to not stress the servers during play time but even then ... it was far too much to handle.

I hope what I'm saying makes it to the STO leads sp they can determine a good combat strat. This isn't a game you're playing anymore. It's an all out war with another nation that refuses to acknowledge your laws and rules as far as gaming and businesses are concerned.

Do what Blizzard didn't have the balls to do. Take the gloves off and tell them, with out any notion other than the fact, "NO!" You will not stand for anything less. You will not abide while they attempt to leach off of you ... you will not accept that they are a nu sense that you must deal with. Give them a clear an undeniably equivocate, "NO!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soradon
Are you serious? They knew from day one that there would be RTMers. So for the ONLY MMO to come close to combating the issue would be eve online. They are the only ones to have banned enough RTMers and offer an alternative to make it viable to keep RTMers out. STO has no such system, nor have I even seen an attempt outside of the MMO standard of just banning accounts.

Dont be fooled, cryptic couldnt care less. They have other issues to worry about right now. I doubt we will ever see anything, or any sort of system that will deter these gold sellers.

Tell you what, offer credits for cryptic points and be AGGRESSIVE with banning accounts and you will actually see a decline. Dont take the lazy way out and rely on the community to get rid of RTMers. Because obviously there is a market for it.
Proactive not reactive, the damage has already been done once the message has got through, and you aren't stopping them being sent in the first place (or the resulting activities which as long as they profit the spams will continue to be sent - the spams are just a symptom not the cause) otherwise... If they continue to succeed they have no reason to stop as long as they are making a profit which they will if you don't actually stop them doing it in the first place and actively stop the farming/transference that feeds it. This is a fairly good case study, not many other game companies that I can find have dealt with the issues as rationally (not JUST cathartic banning) and professionally: http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=687 though of course again there needs to be more than banning if you want to actually change anything, they already know they will lose accounts but they don't care, if you leave it to just react after they have been sent it's a battle of attrition which they will always win.

I'm not sure if Cryptic actually cares about this though seeing as they only seem to have assigned customer support to it rather than any developers saying they are implementing measures to stop it happening in the first place rather than reacting after - it seems it's just a case of hoping people will be happy enough with the banning because it seems on the surface that something has been done. It's cathartic but not achieving a thing other than a slight dent in the "smuggler's" profits.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 104
02-03-2010, 12:14 AM
I have a great idea!

These spammers are usually underpayed poor Asian guys, why don't you just hire them for the Customer Support team, which seems to be non-existent?

In 2 days I received 3 letters from these credit sellers, while in 10 days I received ZERO replies to my tickets from your Billing/Account Support.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 105
02-03-2010, 12:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sangrilia View Post
I have a great idea!

These spammers are usually underpayed poor Asian guys, why don't you just hire them for the Customer Support team, which seems to be non-existent?

In 2 days I received 3 letters from these credit sellers, while in 10 days I received ZERO replies to my tickets from your Billing/Account Support.
I have an idea, too!

[edit]

Regards,



This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines ~Seadgir
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 106
02-03-2010, 12:39 AM
[quote=Pacifica-]Please give us an option to report spam in the mail box in the Forums too...[/QUOT]

agreed .. bump
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 107
02-03-2010, 12:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pacifica-
Please give us an option to report spam in the mail box in the Forums too...
/agree

Thanks for taking a firm stand on this devs! Good Job!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 108
02-03-2010, 12:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFreyMan View Post
I have an idea, too!

You could go stick your head in some sand.

Regards,
Replying with a personal attack to a sarcastic message? Somebody is looking for a ban.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 109
02-03-2010, 02:57 AM
people never seem to learn that the gold seller is not only after your $9.99 but will use your credit card details to further the advancement of their profits. The websites they use may also contain keyloggers which will also compromise your account and you may log in one morning to find your character(s) stripped of all assets and worse banned for gold selling due to someone else using your account for the purpose.

spread the word buying gold is bad for your security and WILL always end in tears

On another note any chance of cryptic looking at some form of authenticator , Blizzard introduced them some time ago as an option in an attempt to reduce the number of hijacked accounts. Last number I heard from blizzard was over 5k accounts a day were compromised ( don't quote me on that) so as you can imagine the costs involved for gm time resolving these issues are not insignificant either.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 110
02-03-2010, 03:12 AM
its so stupid that people would actually pay others. Its really not hard to get currency in the game. Plus, you can get currency by running through PvP real fast. I digress, some people are born stupid.
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