Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 71
02-04-2010, 10:11 AM
This thread is a classic case of not seeing the forest for the trees. There are much bigger fish to fry as it is.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 72
02-04-2010, 10:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beaker2009 View Post
Wait till Romulans are added to the mix, oh the debate that will follow....
Yes, the klingon vs romunlan matches will be hilarious.

"So, who's going to be bait to get the other team to unlcoak first..."


That said, my only real problem with cloak is more of a game preference thing. All our detection abilities seem to max out at about 12km (while running 125 to aux). If a klingon is within 10km (max I've seen at 100 to aux) they're about ready to start shooting anyway. Feds have to be reactive instead of proactive. Just a personal preference, I don't like it and it's why I'll not be in FvK arena matches once FvF is put in on my federation character.

But like I said, that's personal preference, it's a design thing, and I've got other things I can do.

In t2 things seemed to work out pretty well as they are. Feds had to ball up and sit on their thumbs more or less while the klingons planned how to pick them apart and try to react on the fly better then the pre-planned strike. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't. It did give some fun fights along the way (good premade vs good premade. I can be very happy losing in a good fight)

In t2 this wasn't so much of a problem. In t3 things get uglier, but that's not so much the cloaks fault as the amount of control added to the game. Yes both sides have it (viral matrix), but high control fights just about always go to the one to get their control applied first.

When multiple science officer BoP pilots enter the picture and your first strike is a stun on more half the ships in the group followed by ability lock downs. That my friends is a done fight, more or less. It can very easily become a 3v5 or a 2v5 before the stuns are up if the klingons focus peroperly. (Remember while stunned, you can't even change your facing or reinforce shields).

But this is more the fault of viral matrix itself then the cloak.

The only thing I'd like to see done with cloak is some sort of a timer on it. Maybe a 2 min on, 2 min off thing, that way Feds can at least know the general area to head to and try and scan. Still logn enough to change positions while cloaked and get the first strike in more often then not, but not an indefinate thing.

Maybe some sort of visible shimmer while moving at high speeds (impulse) while cloaked would be nice too.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 73
02-04-2010, 10:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalzas View Post
I have not played a Klingon, but I have fought several long boring battles against Klingons. I believe the cloaking device is overpowered, at least at my level. I have seen too many crippled Klingons escape into a cloak with less than 10% of their hull remaining to not believe that cloaking itself is overpowered. If cloaking devices went offline below 25% or 35% it would be different. I don't know if there is a cooldown for cloaking after you decloak, but if there is it doesn't seem to be long enough. Having bridge officers with the ability to detect cloaked vessels might also help.
PvP can be very exciting, but most of the time it is very boring to me. If there is no science vessel among the Federation vessels it gets even more boring. Nothing kills my gaming mood like having to wait 10-15 minutes for the Klingons to position themselves around us for a 2 minute engagement which ends with half the Klingons running away into their cloak, and then waiting another 10-15 minutes for them to build up their courage for another attack. Last night we starting flying in a single file line around the zone just to trying to draw them out, and it still took over 5 minutes before they attacked. As things stand now Klingons completely control the pace of space PvP, and the only thing a Federation captain can do to speed things up is to fly off on his own while waiting to be destroyed.
Just as side note, as I also play a klingon. Cloaking while in combat can be a very -bad- thing. Every projectile you have incoming while you cloak still hits and goes straight to hull.

It's far safer to just disengage most times, set full power to engines, pop evasive manuovering, polarize hull, and maybe an engine battery. Further away then 10km = safe. Cloaked with a trio of quantum torps heading towards you while you're already at 30% hull or so = dead more or less.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 74
02-04-2010, 10:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rothnang
There are dozens of ways to find and destroy cloaked ships, Cloaking in the show is useful, but not anywhere near as overwhelmingly powerful as in this game.
Actually for the sake of the show, cloaking was never used realistically it should've been. The Federation would iether have "fast-tracked" anti-claoking tech through Darpa or been completely overwhelmed by the cloaked Klingon forces. Think of how much of an advantage stealth tech gives today in warfare in comparison.
I still don't think it is over-powered, merely a great advantage. Easily countered by teaming and using tactics.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 75
02-04-2010, 10:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beaker2009 View Post
Wait till Romulans are added to the mix, oh the debate that will follow....
Very True, since they have better cloaks.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 76
02-04-2010, 10:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vuk View Post
It's not that they don't understand or appreciate that fact , they even accept as part of the gameplay. They like it just fine when it's a mindless preprogramed AI doing it . When you put a player at the controls of such a vessel , suddenly it's OP. That and the lack of a true understanding of how to play the vessel they are in.
So they're upset because the opponents are not "dumber" than they are? Thats the thrill of playing against another human - they adapt and always remain flexible.
I find the whole debate pointless since Cryptic is hardly going to take cloaking away from the Klingons and Romulans for the sake of balance.


Federation rules for PvP:

1) never enter combat alone - it means death
2) Always suspect you are being stalked by Klingons - don't trust them!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 77
02-04-2010, 10:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by erroch View Post
But this is more the fault of viral matrix itself then the cloak.
I've seen a lot of comments about viral matrix, and to be honest I think it's fine as is (having been on the receiving end). If anything, I would only like to see some minor tweaks:
-more diminishing returns
-arena size changed to 10v10, point limit set to 25 or 30

Quote:
Originally Posted by erroch View Post
Maybe some sort of visible shimmer while moving at high speeds (impulse) while cloaked would be nice too.
I like this idea, and it also ties back to Star Trek lore.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 78
02-04-2010, 10:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by erroch View Post

The only thing I'd like to see done with cloak is some sort of a timer on it. Maybe a 2 min on, 2 min off thing, that way Feds can at least know the general area to head to and try and scan. Still logn enough to change positions while cloaked and get the first strike in more often then not, but not an indefinate thing.

Maybe some sort of visible shimmer while moving at high speeds (impulse) while cloaked would be nice too.
  1. Cloak has a 20 s timer
  2. It does shimmer on cloaking , but this 100 or so years after TOS encounters so the tech should be refined.
  3. The Feds have always been designated as a defensive body .
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 79
02-04-2010, 10:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vuk View Post
  1. The Feds have always been designated as a defensive body .
They are after all a "peacekeeping" organization... but hey it's always someone else at fault when a team loses right? I mean if I lose to a Fed team that must mean they need a nerf
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 80
02-04-2010, 10:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt_Dravis
I've seen a lot of comments about viral matrix, and to be honest I think it's fine as is (having been on the receiving end). If anything, I would only like to see some minor tweaks:
-more diminishing returns
-arena size changed to 10v10, point limit set to 25 or 30


I like this idea, and it also ties back to Star Trek lore.
In all honesty , in CB I thought it was going to be the predominate skill of T 3 , and it has become so . The change I might suggest is to randomize the effect and the chance to hit . Make it an ability that weakens ( like a virus would to a host ) a random core part of the ship . Basically you 'd have some percentage chance of weaken by let's suggest 50 % , for the sake of argument , shields , engines , weapons or aux . I'll leave it to Cryptic to decide what would suffice as a percentage decrease , but the full shut down is basically a death sentence once it lands , fore the most part.
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