Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 41
02-04-2010, 09:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Legatus
Interesting, what you're describing from play experience is technically impossible

Adding a third cannon can't effect the per shot damage of all other cannons; it just can't. You're adding a third gun, but the first and second ones suddenly start hitting harder?
Except, it's happening? Have you tried it? I'm quite serious, the fly-away numbers saw a considerable boost... something is happening, no clue what. And it's not just the numbers, there is a very real difference in the speed those shields come down.

Quote:
Also, you're mixing phaser and plasma weapons. What tactical consoles do you use because now you're splitting your percentage multipliers, or not benefiting one of the weapon types. This is why I mount all disruptor cannons and turrets, then use two (in t2) "Console-Tactical-Disruptor Induction Coil Mk4 (+15 disruptor damage)". Those two consoles together give all of my disruptor cannons +30% more damage.
At the moment, I've got a +cannon console, and the other is just the autofire turret thing (the 45 plasma, 1 shot every 5 seconds one - I just haven't gotten around to pulling it yet). My plan was to go all three plasma, but I like the debuff chance from the phasers, and figured the plasma would be nice for the DoT on larger targets.

Quote:
As far as mounting a torpedo in the rear then swinging about to use it, it must be a DPS loss. As long as you're not pointing your nose at the target your three primary cannons are doing zero dps. Not discounting that it works for you, but I'm just thinking that it sounds like you're killing things a lot slower than I was in the same tier 2 escort. Going in vs a Romulan Mogai escort: 10km start cannon stream and activate rapid fire, 5km tractor beam to lock the Mogai and HYT torpedos away, followed shortly by them exploding before I can cycle a second torpedo shot. As in, the escort usually died before I had the need to turn about or reposition for a second pass.
It's possible. What I'm generally doing is taking them to the point that they'd be dead after a torp hit, then vectoring to another target and finishing the first off just before opening up on target 2.

I'll try your min-max stacking tonight though, could prove better. Where its been most helpful is those darn mosquitoes (fighters), as a quick tab target change to the one on my tail nearly always results in them getting one-shot by a torp, then shift-tab back to the last guy with the cannons.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 42
02-04-2010, 12:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielV
That page is slightly out of date, Tactial Team I replaces Security Team I and I believe a does everything Security Team did plus adds a listed +18 to all Weapon Damages (which in my testing adds 12-13% to my cannon damage but my testing has been very limited thus far.

Try using the character builder at http://sto-builder.binarybit.ch/ it seems to have more up to date skill info.
Thought I'd chime back in on this thread since I tested Tactical Team 1 last night vs HYT1.

So here's my analysis:

Tactical Team 1: 30 second buff, 45 second CD (20 second shared GCD). Basically with two Tactical ensign slots with this ability, you have 100% uptime on Tactical Team. +18 Starship weapons gave me a 6% increase in cannon damage, and the +18 Starship Projectiles gave me a +8% increase in Photon torpedo damage. I took the DPS number at 8% across the board (running 2 hv cannons, 1 quantum torp, 2 turrets in the rear) and with 100% uptime this granted me ~175DPS increase

High Yield Torpedos 1: 30 second buff, next shot fires two torpedos (20 second shared GCD). Again with two Tactical ensign slots you can 'almost' use it every second shot (9 second recharge, 18 seconds for every second shot so you delay 2 seconds = 90% efficiency). My torpedo's paper doll dps was 475, effectively 427 when delayed. 50% uptime makes that a 213DPS increase.

So, presuming you use both abilities on cooldown and keep the respective uptimes. HYT1 is approximately 18% more effective than Tactical Team 1. Further talking burst potential here, HYT pulls further ahead seeing as you can start off with back to back HYT launches: activate HYT, wait at least the 20 seconds for the GCD to expire and then engage the enemy fire torps, click your second HYT immediately and your second shot is also HYT.

I tried using a mix, HYT1 and a TT1. It felt "clunky" in the longer engagements (more than 1 enemy) though it obviously gave a nicer alpha strike vs say a sinlge Mogai and killed that off quicker by gaining both the +8% from TT1 and the double torpedo from your first HYT. So back to double HYT1 for me, it feels cleaner and I've been trying to time my quantums striking bare hull anyways. It's always nice to see 5k/5k damage flashing on the screen
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 43
02-04-2010, 01:29 PM
2 dual heavy plasma cannons Mk IV with crit severity +20 on both, Quantum Torp Mk IV with crit severtiy +20, and a plasma turret Mk IV on aft.

Get 8km out unload cannons and a HY II torp. The target disintegrates. Seriously. The torps alone against full shields on a bird of prey will drop them to 0 and do 33% hull damage too. Two rounds of cannon fire then the torps, and the ship blows up. Damage number I see are: c for cannon t for torp

(c20-c20-c17-c31-c20-t400-c120-t4500-c400-t4800...) Hehe you can see the shields go down in the numbers =D

I think 2 cannon + torp would win out on this match up. Considering you can launch a delayed damage attack and put your cannons on another target while the torps finish a target off.

On battleships, I widdle their shields down with the cannons then fire the HYII torp to take their hull to about 5%. 3 HY torps hitting a hull for average 4k damage each is impressive if you time your firing right, which is before the shields go down but not at full shields.

This is all on 0 to +2 ships btw, I guess it'll boil down to playstyle in the end.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 44
02-04-2010, 04:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Legatus
dual cannons and dual heavy cannons have the same DPS value. Dual cannons fire four times then cooldown for 1 second, heavies fire twice (per shot is double that of duals) then cooldown for 2 seconds. Since you cannot fire two cannons at the same time, 3 cannons is only an option for dual heavy cannons (discounting under rapid fire, when all cannons fire simultaneously at double rate). Bare stat wise, photon torpedo launchers are the highest DPS weapon per hard point. However this can be skewed depending on your ship equipment load and captains skills. For instance, at full power with two +15 disruptor induction coils my dual cannons/dual heavy cannons far out stripped the DPS value of my photon/quantum torpedo launchers. It was something like 700-800 dps on the cannon vs 500-600 for a launcher.

It also depends on your expected fight length especially once you get into t3+. What's the uptime on rapid fire (which allows all cannons simultaneous fire at double fire rate)? Once you fly an escort past T3 with rapid fire1 and rapid fire 2, the uptime on rapid fire is insane: basically 15 out of every 20 seconds or every time you can turn to strafe a new target you can queue RF.

The disadvantage however, is: what do you take for your tactical officers T1 space powers? Nothing helps cannons and I can't think of anything that's really decent. For that reason I took HYT1 on both Tacticalís and mounted a quantum torp in the third slot. Basically means that every second torpedo is a HYT shot. And in fact I "think" that going that route is a DPS increase (certainly a burst increase) even though the paper doll value starts as a lower number. What we're looking at is this:

3 HV cannons times double damage with 75% uptime
vs
2 HV cannons times double damage with 75% uptime
plus 1 quantum torp time double damage 50% uptime

I just can't seem to wrap my head around the numbers right now without being in game to see the actual stats... maybe I just need more morning coffee... (or just more sleep ). Regardless, it "feels" better running with the quantum torp; you expose the hull and drop in the HYT quantums: both hit and you see a double 3k flash past a mix of 600's followed by BOOM.

Anyways, regarding keeping on target. It's really not that difficult, combat impulse engine with low speed (or hyper with high speed) gives you the extra turn rate on top of escorts already being the fastest turners. Use evasive maneuvers and/or tractor beam to assist keeping on firing plane. You just can't hop over from playing a cruiser and relying on 250 degrees from beams and suddenly know how to fly with cannons. Just takes is a little practice...

i was flying science in T2, liked it but i thought your explanations made sense so when i hit commander i had a bag of credits sitting there and i bought an Akira in addition to my science ship.

Damn, you screwed me. After i equipped the mean little ship like you mentioned and fought the first fights (i wouldn't even call it fighting) i will never not back to science. Even level battleships blow up before they can turn towards me, its ridiculous,evem though my toon is fully specced for science path.

Oh well, have to wait for the re-spec option i guess.

Anyway, happy hunting out there and thanks for the insight.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 45
02-04-2010, 06:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jnoh
Except, it's happening? Have you tried it? I'm quite serious, the fly-away numbers saw a considerable boost... something is happening, no clue what. And it's not just the numbers, there is a very real difference in the speed those shields come down.



At the moment, I've got a +cannon console, and the other is just the autofire turret thing (the 45 plasma, 1 shot every 5 seconds one - I just haven't gotten around to pulling it yet). My plan was to go all three plasma, but I like the debuff chance from the phasers, and figured the plasma would be nice for the DoT on larger targets.



It's possible. What I'm generally doing is taking them to the point that they'd be dead after a torp hit, then vectoring to another target and finishing the first off just before opening up on target 2.

I'll try your min-max stacking tonight though, could prove better. Where its been most helpful is those darn mosquitoes (fighters), as a quick tab target change to the one on my tail nearly always results in them getting one-shot by a torp, then shift-tab back to the last guy with the cannons.
Curious to see how you feel after trying both

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legatus
Thought I'd chime back in on this thread since I tested Tactical Team 1 last night vs HYT1.

So here's my analysis:

Tactical Team 1: 30 second buff, 45 second CD (20 second shared GCD). Basically with two Tactical ensign slots with this ability, you have 100% uptime on Tactical Team. +18 Starship weapons gave me a 6% increase in cannon damage, and the +18 Starship Projectiles gave me a +8% increase in Photon torpedo damage. I took the DPS number at 8% across the board (running 2 hv cannons, 1 quantum torp, 2 turrets in the rear) and with 100% uptime this granted me ~175DPS increase

High Yield Torpedos 1: 30 second buff, next shot fires two torpedos (20 second shared GCD). Again with two Tactical ensign slots you can 'almost' use it every second shot (9 second recharge, 18 seconds for every second shot so you delay 2 seconds = 90% efficiency). My torpedo's paper doll dps was 475, effectively 427 when delayed. 50% uptime makes that a 213DPS increase.

So, presuming you use both abilities on cooldown and keep the respective uptimes. HYT1 is approximately 18% more effective than Tactical Team 1. Further talking burst potential here, HYT pulls further ahead seeing as you can start off with back to back HYT launches: activate HYT, wait at least the 20 seconds for the GCD to expire and then engage the enemy fire torps, click your second HYT immediately and your second shot is also HYT.

I tried using a mix, HYT1 and a TT1. It felt "clunky" in the longer engagements (more than 1 enemy) though it obviously gave a nicer alpha strike vs say a sinlge Mogai and killed that off quicker by gaining both the +8% from TT1 and the double torpedo from your first HYT. So back to double HYT1 for me, it feels cleaner and I've been trying to time my quantums striking bare hull anyways. It's always nice to see 5k/5k damage flashing on the screen
Really good info, thanks for sharing
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:21 PM.