Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
02-05-2010, 06:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meat_Machine
Actually what is more likely is you crippled your character by bypassing content.
It's more likely that you have no idea what you're talking about because you're not an Admiral yet.

16 skill choices at Admiral, for 171 choices. Heck even removing the 5 other ships you won't be using it's still 16 choices out of 126 at Admiral for a total of 12% of the skills.

lol

This is the reason they didn't auto level people to Admiral in the End of Open Beta event like they did at the End of Open Beta for Champions. To many people would have found out how low the skill cap is. They have only mentioned it in 1 interview on Ten Ton Hammer. Everything previous to that was "Hey we are capless!"
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
02-05-2010, 08:45 PM
It was said over and over and over at the end of OB.

Game No Worky.

Unfortunately, a lot of this got sidelined with a completely irrelevant discussion about capped vs. non-capped skills systems, and people confusing the original uncapped system with the idea that you can level up infinitely. Stormshade's propaganda response of "if there was no cap then you could build up a spare reserve of points that would make new content trivial because you'd be able to instantly spend the banked points" didn't help either.

The fact is that the system was designed with no cap but now has one that is extremely low. At Admiral rank you can only upgrade a tiny few skills before you run out of points.

Granted, the level cap is currently 45, so whatever we can spend now will be doubled soon. Still, even doubled, the choices are extremely limited and there is no way at all that you can afford to spend points in the ship class categories - you need to focus on ground skills and general ship buffs.

The cap needs to be raised, or preferably removed altogether.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
02-05-2010, 10:22 PM
I say removed.

The skills tree is a specialisation tree, the skills stack with other tiers skills (and only same type - Not even sure if thats the case - seems to be - was busy debugging and the stats display were confusing and basically FUBAR to begin with) not same tier skills and they restrict you to certain equipment - more skills means more flexibility / versatality not more powerful.

I can see issues with saving skill points beyond a certain limit but you have a decay over that limit and can always aquire more (decay rate would have to be roughly equal to aquisition rate - forcing you to get a limit per day etc. - ie. you might only be able to raise 1 Tier 5 skill per day).

The more changes they seem to throw out like this, the less fun this game looks.

I heard about the limit during Open Beta and wasn't particularly happy about it - I don't recall them saying anything about a limit before and it simply doesn't make sense with the skill tree. I didn't think it was that bad either as I figured you'd at least get some decent amount of skill at the top level (that is essentially End-Game stuff and those skills impact that exclusively). Its not like one can get demoted in STO.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
02-06-2010, 12:59 AM
We need the devs to take another look at this.

The current skill cap is way way too low. Okay, so the point behind the cap is to prevent high level players from outclassing newer high level players in PvP. That I can appreciate - I wouldn't want to get to 45, decide to go into PvP because all else that's left is exploration/fleet actions, and get toasted every time I faced off against a single Klingon Brigadier General because he's got more skill points than me (no... wait... that would almost seem fair... better skilled opponent... what a challenge...). But having it set so low prevents you from being able to fully utilise your new Star Cruiser but investing suffient points in your ship and associated weapons/engineering/science/tactical skills.

I know the devs have said that a sufficently skilled and equipped T4 captain can match a T5 captain under the right circumstances, but these are not the right circumstances.

Personally I agree with a previous poster about increasing the SP requirements per Admiral rank, and would not be averse to reducing the amount of SP needed per skill level. I'm ambivalent about keeping the skill cap or having it removed entirely; either way we need to be able to use more of the Admiral skills. The current cap is just too low for that...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
02-06-2010, 04:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khromm View Post
Okay, so the point behind the cap is to prevent high level players from outclassing newer high level players in PvP. That I can appreciate - I wouldn't want to get to 45, decide to go into PvP because all else that's left is exploration/fleet actions, and get toasted every time I faced off against a single Klingon Brigadier General because he's got more skill points than me (no... wait... that would almost seem fair... better skilled opponent... what a challenge...)
The fix for this issue is very simple (at least on paper :p ): put high end PvP brackets based on skill points spent past the max level (wich seems to be 45 now), like a 60,700 - 69700, ect ect... letting each bracket having a +-2 maxed admiral's skill between players, like it is approximately the case in previous levels (a fresh lvl 11 player will probably get severe owned by a skilled lvl 20 player, but might still have his chance against (sorry for the caricature) a lvl 20 PvE carebear doing PvP to kill time and/or get a special item.

Anyway i can accept a skill cap, as long it is infinite :p
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
02-06-2010, 11:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khromm View Post
We need the devs to take another look at this.

The current skill cap is way way too low. Okay, so the point behind the cap is to prevent high level players from outclassing newer high level players in PvP. That I can appreciate - I wouldn't want to get to 45, decide to go into PvP because all else that's left is exploration/fleet actions, and get toasted every time I faced off against a single Klingon Brigadier General because he's got more skill points than me (no... wait... that would almost seem fair... better skilled opponent... what a challenge...). But having it set so low prevents you from being able to fully utilise your new Star Cruiser but investing suffient points in your ship and associated weapons/engineering/science/tactical skills.

I know the devs have said that a sufficently skilled and equipped T4 captain can match a T5 captain under the right circumstances, but these are not the right circumstances.

Personally I agree with a previous poster about increasing the SP requirements per Admiral rank, and would not be averse to reducing the amount of SP needed per skill level. I'm ambivalent about keeping the skill cap or having it removed entirely; either way we need to be able to use more of the Admiral skills. The current cap is just too low for that...

If it takes the average player 2 weeks to hit admiral, another 2 days to cap admiral out, does it really matter? They will only be outclassed for a couple weeks CASUALLY... Most MMOs you are outclassed by months, if not a year in some extreme cases.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
02-06-2010, 01:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elboulevardo View Post
umm, does anyone else see the irony in someone who is at admiral by day 3 and is questioning that they dont have enough skill points to rank up an admiral ability to 9?

i think the point would make more sense if this was 3 months into the game, or more...but 3 days? my guess is you will culminate enough in the next month or two to max everything out
No, the only irony is that Cryptic suddenly implemented a cap one week before headstart - before that, it had always been EXPLICITELY stated that there is no cap, that the system is built around no cap etc...


One thing people forget about the system without the cap as it was until deep in Open Beta: Only so many skill points can have an effect in a given situation. For example, ground skills don't affect space and vice versa. Ship skills for different ship classes don't affect the other ones.

Without the cap, you would pretty quickly run into the situation that you can diversify, try out different ships, weapons types etc. With unlimited skill points, you wouldn't do any more damage than you could now with a specific energy weapon and torpedo type maximized and your ship skill to maximum etc... you would just be able to skill different weapons types, too, but in the sum you wouldn't be stronger, only more versatile in your equipment and ship choices. Instead we are now forced to pigeonhole into one ship and one weapon type if we don't want to gimp our characters.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
02-06-2010, 02:20 PM
Yeah...

And my current main is a bit accidentally a Tac/Escort captain with assosciatedly narrow focus, and I have plenty of points because I have no use for more than 75% of the science and more than 50% of the engineering ship skills. Everyone needs the weapon skills to put out damage, and Tac BO powers scale off them (the maneuvers scale off escort command skills as the exception, but that still benefits escort pilots). So Tac/Escort gets the advantage of extremely narrow focus.

With my planned science/science main... not nearly so much breathing room, since every skill point spent on a science skill affects NOTHING BUT 2 or 3 assosciated BO powers. Even about half the engineering skills have some other utility.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
02-06-2010, 03:01 PM
I am all for skill cap and being more specialized. having the ability to do everything and everyone is the same injects a "meh" factor for me in the game. In another MMO it is getting to the point where it does not matter if I was a mage or a shaman or a fighter. It is getting to the point where it does not matter what I pick if I want to DPS, tank, or heal.

As far as the admiral skill points now, I say fine we will be able to increase them later.

Why do people always want to turn things up to 11?

This is a game and what difference does it make if we all play by the same rules.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
02-06-2010, 03:25 PM
The entire skill system needs an overhaul, the only reason I can see them not having it worked out already is that the skill point system is essentially the experience used to determine a characters level (grade/rank whatever).

To change either the amount of skillpoints required per grade/rank or per "skill-up" of each ability would require overhauling that system as well, which would mean having to redo the leveling system as well.
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