Go Back   Star Trek Online > Feedback > PvP Gameplay
Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
02-06-2010, 12:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zostrel
T3 is worse, trust me. Klinks need major balance once they get those ships that can't be killed if they have reverse polarity.
Oh you mean a cruiser? Yeah hey.

Try bringing nothing but escorts to fight cruisers. Sound possible? Welcome to t2 as a kdf.

Seriously, try walking a mile in the other guy's shoes first.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
02-06-2010, 12:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zostrel
T3 is worse, trust me. Klinks need major balance once they get those ships that can't be killed if they have reverse polarity.
? tier 3 is much easier for klingons than tier 2 is. RSP is not a big problem at all in tier 3. Feds pop it so what you either switch targets or just go for hull crew while it runs. it maybe keeps a fed ship alive a couple seconds longer is all.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
02-06-2010, 01:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meat_Machine
I am not sure I am saying it right.

The feds have an -obvious- strategy here which they can execute without coordination. They can bunch up and focus fire. Beating that requires misdirection.

I don't know that I would say they have an advantage one way or another in t2 - the sides are so different that it's hard to quantify. One side has specialized ships and cruisers, the other is -all- dps ships that are flexible.

In t2 if both teams are playing poorly, feds win.
Precisely why we can say the Feds have a slight advantage, if both sides plays equally well (or poor) and the outcome is tilted one way, it is only natural to conclude that that faction have an advantage.. It *is* only a slight though, as it is possible to beat that dreaded fedball, even without vent coordination/highly specialized and trained players.. 5 decent Klingons can easily beat the "lets huddle up in a blob and heal whatever ship gets attacked"

That said, I *have* seen Klingons that decloak/drops out of full impulse at 9k and just fly slowly in toward a target at a quarter impulse.. Sometimes the 4 "good" players can cash in on it, scoring a couple of kills, but often the Klingons lose in this case, simply because no matter of healing will save a newbie that turtles ahead without presenting other shieldarcs, he will die too fast for the 4 Klingons focusfire will have much of an effect.. Its not like its hard surviving for extended periods, even when prioritytartetted, I often stick it out for 30-90+ secs even with multiple people gunning for me (depending on my exact setup, Ive found that dropping a tractor on their primary DPS ship helps a lot.

Should also say that while I do decently enough, Im by no means some godsent PvP player, Ive seen exceptionel players and teams on both side.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
02-06-2010, 05:16 AM
Dont whine about feds in t2, its the only place feds can win, if you are in a team that isent stupid in t3 you can dominate with your cloaking battle cruisers with 13 turn radiuses and cannons to boot and feds cant do anything about it since escorts dont copare at all to BoPs and heavy cruisers dont compare at all to battle cruisers
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
02-06-2010, 06:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanLucSkywalker View Post
Dont whine about feds in t2, its the only place feds can win, if you are in a team that isent stupid in t3 you can dominate with your cloaking battle cruisers with 13 turn radiuses and cannons to boot and feds cant do anything about it since escorts dont copare at all to BoPs and heavy cruisers dont compare at all to battle cruisers
Funny, because I did equally well in T2 Fed and T2 Klingon, and while my Klingon toon is only LtC4 now, I *have* tried T3 PvP as Fed, which *gasp* is no different than dealing with superbuffed Fed cruisers as a T2 Klingon.

There is no real imbalance in T2 or T3 PvP, one side have a slight advantage in T2 the other in T3.. This imbalance isnt so it is impossible to be successful when playing the "weak" side.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
02-06-2010, 06:36 AM
the tears that flow when klingons get T2 cruisers shall be delicious indeed.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
02-06-2010, 07:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanLucSkywalker View Post
Dont whine about feds in t2, its the only place feds can win, if you are in a team that isent stupid in t3 you can dominate with your cloaking battle cruisers with 13 turn radiuses and cannons to boot and feds cant do anything about it since escorts dont copare at all to BoPs and heavy cruisers dont compare at all to battle cruisers
Do you have any ship stats for comparison?

I would like to see a quantifiable or numeric comparison of stats across the board for ships of the two factions.

The most important stats would be officer stations and console slots, but would also like to see base turn rates, shield and hull strength, and of course weapon slots.

Otherwise simply saying 'one is better than the other' leaves the interpretation open for tactical (player skill) differences.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
02-06-2010, 09:48 AM
I'd like to see the feds have a slight advantage every level, such that if both sides play poorly, the feds win. I like it being uphill, and to any kdf that whine about that I'd love to send them packing back to the blue side.

That being said, my self-appointed role in this forum from the first day I've logged in is to protect the game from the masses of incompetent accusers who will if left unchecked actually damage the game by compelling developers to make wrongful adjustments to gameplay in a flawed attempt to correct through impossible means the wrong execution on the part of the player.

No amount of nerfing the klingon side is going to make it possible to allow a fed player who fails to group, doesn't understand power settings, doesn't react in pvp, doesn't understand how ship stats work and has been lazy about acquiring good gear to win against an opponent who is trying.

Those are the people I argue against, and I can tell who they are every time. I know when I am talking to someone who understands the game, and importantly - those people often share my observations.

Winning and losing in this game is dependent on skill, expertise and coordination. When those conditions are met, then and ONLY then can observations be made about balance.

It's as true as ever, that the least qualified to make any statement about evaluating the game are always the first to do so. That is because incompetence is perversely more likely to make someone bolder about their opinion rather than cautious. The most incompetent are the ones who overestimate their own ability, and underestimate the abilities of others, causing arrogance and a massive distortion of perception when the outcome does not match their expectations. Professionals see this in the workplace all the time.

What is happening in this game is that the truly incompetent think they are good, play the game against people who they assume aren't as good as they are, and lose miserably. Obviously, the only explanation given their assumptions is that the game must be flawed, because they are good and everyone else is not as good. How else could they lose?

This is what I am fighting against, because it's the sheer force of stupidity, and those people can harm games if they are not sufficiently kicked in the mouth.

Thanks for listening to my rant.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
02-08-2010, 11:47 AM
The only person who has it correct is the original poster. If cryptic pulled the metrics for T2 combat they would definitely see a huge skewing in favour of the feds, who have - as was explained then carefully ignored by most the respondants here - a no-brainer strategy. All the feds have to do is show up where there already are feds and they get the advantage. They don't have any problems with communicating (which is hard in larger engagements without just speaking to the whole zone and telling the other team); coordination (they don't need any other than to just sit there and wait), target calling (klingons appear one at a time due to the vaugarities of decloaking, so feds auto-lock the same target), or even attack committment (how many times have we seen people delay decloaking until they feel "safe" to do so-at which point we've lost and they never do?). This isn't a numerical stat advantage in terms of ship-on-ship or skill-on-skill, but rather a series of human-nature and endplay scenarios that make it comparatively rediculously hard for the klingons over the feds. It's also more than enough to give them a far far easier time in combat given the offence-over-defence nature of T2. This is an imbalance that really should be looked at.

To declare that the games are 50/50 or better is not just anecdotal, it's also far unrepresentative of what the vast majority of us are experiencing at the moment. We can only assume that you're refering to personal victories rather than map wins or that you're no longer in T2 combat at all and the first few days had far less of this problem than is becoming evident now. I've been LT2 now for a good 4 days and of the 80+ matches matches I've taken part in we've won 3. And it certainly wasn't for lack of coaching or attempts to coordinate with my teammates. But really, it doesn't matter if I improve my l33t pvp skills or even if the majority of my team improve their skills. Because the feds have it so easy in all the terms listed above there is little way we can survive if even 1 or 2 of our members aren't playing 100%. And in a casual MMO like this, there's a huge chance that is the case. You can easily get away with it on the fed side, but not the klingon, but it's neither reasonable nor appropriate to just fanboi-comment "they shouldn't play klingon!" because really they have every right to and the game should be balanced enough to at least give a little leeway to them, otherwise the entire klingon side suffers.

So, in conclusion, get off your high horses and recognise the problem for what it is please. I look forward to clearing these last few levels of Klingon so I can get into T3 and out of this quagmire of miserable PvP, and I intend never to have to do this again. In the meanwhile I also only go for KvK battles now, because then all things are actually equal and the matches are interesting.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
02-08-2010, 11:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow View Post
The only person who has it correct is the original poster. If cryptic pulled the metrics for T2 combat they would definitely see a huge skewing in favour of the feds, who have - as was explained then carefully ignored by most the respondants here - a no-brainer strategy..
I will attempt to educate you.

The feds have an easy strategy which dominates when both sides are playing poorly.

When both sides are playing very well, the matches go down to the wire. Each engagement costs both sides a few ships, and winning requires making sure the other side loses more than you do each time.

Because the KDF has no tanks, they have to rely on opportunity, and learn to get out before they lose too many.

Are you going to deny that?
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:48 AM.