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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
02-08-2010, 01:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bos22
And it can mount cannons with rapid fire, while Fed cruiser don't have enough energy to run beams. If you don't get Feds cruisers cannot mount cannons or is that useful with turn rate of 5, and beams drain energy badly.
They are all but omni-directional...its a trade off in instaneous damage output for directionality...which provides sustained engagement time.

Come on, you can see that...Phasers arrays are High Caps, Cannons are Low Caps...utilizing them follows the same strategies.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
02-08-2010, 01:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bos22
Yea right, less hull then any fed ship. A bit of honesty would be great.

T4 K Cruiser Hull = 30k 10 turn rate
T4 F Science = 22,5k 12 turn rate (the difference between 12 and 10 is tiny)
T4 F Escort = 25k 17 turn rate.
T4 F Cruiser = 32.5k (again 32k and 30k is nothing) turn rate is 5.... (that;s 5 vs 10)

And it can mount cannons with rapid fire, while Fed cruiser don't have enough energy to run beams. If you don't get Feds cruisers cannot mount cannons or is that useful with turn rate of 5, and beams drain energy badly.

As I'm not T4 yet, but have played both sides some (not seeing any HUGE problems). One thing you are not taking into account, dont most of the DPS weapons the KDF have require you to face them?, have narrow fireing angles? As I say I may be wrong on this as I Only know what the game has shown me so far (and its by no means exstensive) and I havent browsed a bunch of Websites to make sure I'm set up "perfect" (more a play and learn guy). If I am correct, Turn rates would be pretty important in this whole equation.

No science here, just my thoughts. KDF have huge guns, do great DPS if you can hit um head on, turn well. Feds seem to take some time to beat stuff down, but seem to take a beating too.

I think most of the problems with balance are simple: IS balance 1vs1 or is it Mixed fleet vs Mixed Fleet. I have seen so many PvP ruined by the "but my heals cant Beat his Burst DPS" FFS, heals are to heal, not DPS, DPS is to DPS, etc... SHould this game be a rock, paper scissors, or ROCK ROCK ROCK?

And OP, im not sying you are wrong (or right). Just give the game some time.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
02-08-2010, 01:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bos22
Yea right, less hull then any fed ship. A bit of honesty would be great.

T4 K Cruiser Hull = 30k 10 turn rate
T4 F Science = 22,5k 12 turn rate (the difference between 12 and 10 is tiny)
T4 F Escort = 25k 17 turn rate.
T4 F Cruiser = 32.5k (again 32k and 30k is nothing) turn rate is 5.... (that;s 5 vs 10)

And it can mount cannons with rapid fire, while Fed cruiser don't have enough energy to run beams. If you don't get Feds cruisers cannot mount cannons or is that useful with turn rate of 5, and beams drain energy badly.
I posted my source for data, I'll have to check if Suricata updated the hull numbers at any point.

In any event, the Klink ship still has LESS hull than the Fed cruiser (which you say doesn't matter) and still turns less than the Sci ship (which you say doesn't matter).

In any event if you'd like to run beams on your Fed cruiser, I suggest properly fitting out your T4 ship. In beta I was able to run a fed beam cruiser. If you don't know how to do this, then the problem is in your understanding of how to spec yourself and your ship properly.


What I really love is that Klinks have non science ships except for the carrier which doesn't count, or maybe someone who put an extra BO in their BoP. No cruisers until T3. And then when Klinks do field a cruiser, the Feds complain about it.

I've flown the T3/4 Klink cruisers. And yes, while I can frontload damage and put a cannon on it, it can do DPS. But it's painfully obvious the shortcomings of the Klink cruisers once you fight competent Fed pilots. A competent Fed pilot in a cruiser will show you just how sturdy their ship is compared to yours. A competent Fed pilot in an escort will show you just how much your frontloaded DPS doesn't matter against an escort. A competent Fed pilot in a sci ship will give you fits with all their sci abilities and have you cursing the fact that Klinks never get sci ships.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
02-08-2010, 01:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cocoa-jin View Post
They are all but omni-directional...its a trade off in instaneous damage output for directionality...which provides sustained engagement time.

Come on, you can see that...Phasers arrays are High Caps, cannons Low Caps...utilizing them follows the same strategy.
Read the part about energy.... It's the energy problem, my energy goes down 50 in few seconds with 4 beams and 2 eng consoles - 2.2 transfer rate and 1.5 transfer rate. Cannons > Beams any time, and rapid fire simply owns beam overload.

Also there are cannons with 180' arc.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
02-08-2010, 01:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meat_Machine
I don't see why fed cruisers can't equip cannons.
Simply because it's Battle Cruiser, not a Cruiser. Only turrets can be equipped.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
02-08-2010, 01:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaglug View Post
I posted my source for data, I'll have to check if Suricata updated the hull numbers at any point.

In any event, the Klink ship still has LESS hull than the Fed cruiser (which you say doesn't matter) and still turns less than the Sci ship (which you say doesn't matter).

In any event if you'd like to run beams on your Fed cruiser, I suggest properly fitting out your T4 ship. In beta I was able to run a fed beam cruiser. If you don't know how to do this, then the problem is in your understanding of how to spec yourself and your ship properly.


What I really love is that Klinks have non science ships except for the carrier which doesn't count, or maybe someone who put an extra BO in their BoP. No cruisers until T3. And then when Klinks do field a cruiser, the Feds complain about it.

I've flown the T3/4 Klink cruisers. And yes, while I can frontload damage and put a cannon on it, it can do DPS. But it's painfully obvious the shortcomings of the Klink cruisers once you fight competent Fed pilots. A competent Fed pilot in a cruiser will show you just how sturdy their ship is compared to yours. A competent Fed pilot in an escort will show you just how much your frontloaded DPS doesn't matter against an escort. A competent Fed pilot in a sci ship will give you fits with all their sci abilities and have you cursing the fact that Klinks never get sci ships.

Ahh.. an escort cant do **** to a cruiser in front.. Sorry, escort needs to tail or better hit from the side.

So you complain until T3 and then its ok? No sorry it doesn't work, imbalance is imbalance. Noone argues that T2 is painful to K, same as T1 to F.

Of course I mean there are no cannons with 180', or are there? Also let me already say that to you since you're a bit clueless, beams drain energy too fast and rapid fire still owns beam overloard any time. May be you should learn to play if you don't consider T3 cruiser not powerful. I'll destroy any fed cruiser with my kling cruiser.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
02-08-2010, 01:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevek
kling cruisers get cannons, and they can dish our damage. I don't think Fed perspective is needed, I think there might be a bit of balance necessary.

I'd also rather they get it right, and do it slowly, rather than overreact and nerf.
I don't see why fed cruisers can't equip cannons.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
02-08-2010, 01:28 PM
STOs PvP requires for people to change the way thy think. They think that they will jump into cruiser like a glorious captain Kirk, equip beams and couple torpedo launchers and will be as unstoppable as USS Enerprise killing blowing up everything that moves in sight.

Give me 3 Klinks face to face with 1 properly slotted fed cruiser tank, fed science support ship and a fed loaded escort ship and we will tear those klinks apart one by one.

PvP in STO is GROUP-BASED. Not 1v1... And in any group based PvP its all about ganking. If klinks play right they will first kill support, then escort, while probably losing 1 ship and have heavily dmged the other and in the end it will be all about 1 klink v 1 fed cruiser and all about who knows better how to play their ship properly.

PvP abilities are also different from PvE, while in PvE pure DPS can be good enough, in PvP you supposed to be more versatile.. etc.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
02-08-2010, 01:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bos22
Ahh.. an escort cant do **** to a cruiser in front.. Sorry, escort needs to tail or better hit from the side.
I'm not sure what your point is, that's a fairly incoherent statement.

A properly piloted fed escort will only be in my cruiser's front arc for a fleeting few seconds. Then he's abeam or abaft, and all my frontloaded cruiser DPS is worthless while he chews on me. It's then down to who uses his abilities best, and who understands close-range knifefighting best. If the Fed is good at what he does, I'm toast. If he's bad at what he does, I kill him because he's not smart enough or good enough to stay out of my front cone of fire.

Either way, only the Fed cruiser is less maneuverable than the Klink cruiser. So only the Fed cruiser will have difficulty outmaneuvering the Klink cruiser. Other Fed ships should have no problem. Unless they're not that bright.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
02-08-2010, 01:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroNavigator
STOs PvP requires for people to change the way thy think. They think that they will jump into cruiser like a glorious captain Kirk, equip beams and couple torpedo launchers and will be as unstoppable as USS Enerprise killing blowing up everything that moves in sight.

Give me 3 Klinks face to face with 1 properly slotted fed cruiser tank, fed science support ship and a fed loaded escort ship and we will tear those klinks apart one by one.

PvP in STO is GROUP-BASED. Not 1v1... And in any group based PvP its all about ganking. If klinks play right they will first kill support, then escort, while probably losing 1 ship and have heavily dmged the other and in the end it will be all about 1 klink v 1 fed cruiser and all about who knows better how to play their ship properly.

PvP abilities are also different from PvE, while in PvE pure DPS can be good enough, in PvP you supposed to be more versatile.. etc.
ZzzZ tank? And why da hell would anyone attack tanks, actually everyone attacks escorts first. Cruisers can be ignored until they try to do the broadside with turn rate of 5. Fed escort will be dead in a second, while both Cruiser and Sci Vessel will be CCed, you can simply VM both of them. or you can simply VM all 3 feds .
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