Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 141 making the ship our own
09-16-2008, 12:22 PM
during the speach on stage it was talked about customizing ships . this creates ownership and great goals to work for . i also have played eve and beta tested earth and beyond . i always like being able to add to my ship . but i hope there will not be to many limits as for upgrading hulls and weapons and also color . I am hoping we could also at some point add landing gear as seen in the movies . watching a large ship in a landing is just cool beyond belief. maybe it could also be a skill and a add on hard to get . i am sitting here playing wow just waiting my time out for this game . i have beta tested 3 games and i hope this will be my next long term home (ultima online1999-2007, lineage 2, earth and beyond , eve, wow,lineage, ) from what i understand guys since 1995 with windows 95 we star trek fans have been waiting for this day.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 142
09-20-2008, 07:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfviii View Post
during the speach on stage it was talked about customizing ships . this creates ownership and great goals to work for . i also have played eve and beta tested earth and beyond . i always like being able to add to my ship . but i hope there will not be to many limits as for upgrading hulls and weapons and also color . I am hoping we could also at some point add landing gear as seen in the movies . watching a large ship in a landing is just cool beyond belief. maybe it could also be a skill and a add on hard to get . i am sitting here playing wow just waiting my time out for this game . i have beta tested 3 games and i hope this will be my next long term home (ultima online1999-2007, lineage 2, earth and beyond , eve, wow,lineage, ) from what i understand guys since 1995 with windows 95 we star trek fans have been waiting for this day.
If they did add landing gear to ships, it would be ships like the Intrepid Class. Mind you, the Galaxy class starships could land the saucer section, but that was a one way trip and could not be salvaged.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 143
09-20-2008, 09:10 AM
LOL. I think Data put it properly when he said "Oh Sh***"
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 144
09-20-2008, 04:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunpar View Post
WILL ther be borg playable.. and if so when will we be able to play them... also how will you deal with haveing a ship concered via bording.. will that ship fall under the command of the main bording caption. and if so will there be a cool down time till the ship functions like it would if it where under the orgianl owner??
I doubt the Borg will be a playable faction.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 145
09-20-2008, 08:19 PM
Figured I should throw my thoughts in with the PvP discussion. It's my first post so... hi ;P

I do want to touch bases with Lance first on his commentary towards PvP systems with MMOs such as EvE Online and World of ********. I can understand where he comes from at a very core level. I played EvE Online for a few years as a pirate (sorry Lance, you probably wouldn't have liked me... ) and from my own subjective view, I very much enjoyed EvE's PvP system. I started playing that game as a miner, utilizing ships and devices to do nothing but try and make a bit of cash, and in those days I was getting hit pretty hard sometimes; however, after experiencing both sides of things I had to conclude that EvE does in fact have a decent PvP system. But if players die so easily in it from other players, then why is that?

When EvE Online's PvP system was developed, one of the more obvious underlying premises was the idea of "risk versus reward". Much like the developers' strategy towards building the game's economy (which is basically a textbook example of laissez faire), this PvP system was designed to create a situation where a non-combat pilot would be making an amount of money in proportion to how dangerous the process was. As a miner, I could bring in large amounts of low-end, low-cost materials without being in much danger (CONCORD (the ingame peacekeepers) cannot be tanked anymore Lance, so it's very difficult and far from profitable to target individuals in those areas of space 99.9% of the time... thank the maker eh?). These areas of space were called "high security space", and mechanics in the game DO allow PvP here... however, any attempt to initiate will likely result in a very shiny death from local peacekeeper NPCs, and your target getting away with nothing other than potentially soiled undergarments.

However, I wanted more. I could have made enough to easily support myself, but there was a strong allure there to make Even More Money (tm). So I headed to what in EvE is called "low security space". In low security space, the NPC peacekeepers are simply not there. There are still automated defense systems around travel gates and space stations that CAN be tanked with work, but not all PvP configurations allow for this (for example, I always preferred speed over durability due to my fighting style after I became a pirate, and since I couldn't evade fire from the defense systems I was unable to "camp" locations). From what I've just said, it's obvious that attempting to travel or work in these areas can be quite dangerous; however, if you're smart, you can make a ton of cash. I wasn't smart Beyond this, there was "frontier" or "null security space" where player factions could officially claim territory, build stations, and effectively run their faction "for real" within the game. Players were 100% responsible for their own security and safety.

So, why do I prefer this system?

As many have already mentioned, space is a very big place. It isn't like a country on a planet, where a single government can simply say "Okay, we're going to have police everywhere so nobody does anything mean to anyone else". Space is simply too large, and the drive for more of it seen by most everyone in the Star Trek universe only makes this a larger problem. In EvE, this underlying truth is exhibited well in the very PvP system it developed... and we all knew it, and were forced to realize it. Furthermore, it helped bring a bit of boredom out of the stereotypical "carebear" activities (which are vital to any MMO) in a sometimes scary and frustrating way. As a miner I was willing to accept that frustration; after all, It's Just a Game (tm). Furthermore, it allowed for what I call "true criminals" in a game. To understand my meaning behind this a bit more though is to really understand why people tend to target the defenseless.

As a pirate and admittedly quite the griefer in EvE Online, I got more than my fair share of hate (I did actually have to report some of the nastier things, but that's life). Most of it only indicated to me, however, that many players don't understand the motives behind such activities. Many griefers (not all, but most of us) are not really targeting a player for who they are; we're targeting them for what they have. Easy money; not a lot, but easy. Just like seeing the victim's end of this "risk versus reward" system, the criminals get the same exact dilemma; either don't make a lot of money but make it reliably by killing those much too weak to oppose you... or go up against someone with a chance, and potentially make a lot more if you win.

(A quick note to Lance and others with perceivably similar views: It's something that's very easily difficult to understand from a victim's perspective, and I get that. "Why did he attack me? I did nothing wrong and I'm not even worth that much, and I worked really hard for what I did have..." is a very common and very understandable reaction. I reacted that way too. But people are just going to want to go for what's easy for them sometimes, and they aren't really personally attacking you. In fact, they don't even care about you at all, just what you have… at least, that’s how it was in EvE).

So basically, I prefer this system because it allows for the near seamless preservation of a core game component we know as "suspension of disbelief". Yes, realism isn't everything; however, a successful application of it allows for incredible player immersion. I'm a proponent of an EvE-style PvP system for these reasons. Not to mention I think it’s “fair”.

What does this have to do with the original topic, and this upcoming game? Actually, a lot.

I can see where a zone-based PvP system makes sense, but I believe it has too many cons to be a permanent solution. Let's face it, PvP is easily one of the hardest things to tackle as a developer; it will seem even more than usual that, regardless of what you do, someone is going to hate it. Zoning is especially vulnerable here. Too many/large and the industrialists complain, too few/small and the PvPers get frustrated from lack of activity. The problem with the size and numbers, though they may be nice for the Star Trek universe, is somewhat simple to explain: Too large and players can't make any money or do anything they want without passing through a PvP area. Too small and it becomes too easy for players to avoid them regardless of activity, which makes PvPers upset due to a lack of preferred targets. Striking a balance that everyone can at least tolerate is incredibly difficult. Conversely, an EvE-style PvP system allows for both sides to technically get what they want, while providing an opportunity for unlawful players and groups to target those who choose to seek more than their share (and trust me when I say that some industrialists have no problem taking that risk if it means a lot more shinies).

I can also see the logic behind having PvP-dedication on certain servers but I believe this is an even worse solution. As I've explained above, many PvPers enjoy targeting the unwitting/unwilling/defenseless, and this is a core aspect of PvP whether we like it or not. Darwinism simply needs to be there; for it not to be detracts not only from the inherent realism the game should possess, but also the potential immersion of standard servers.

So I'm a strong proponent of EvE's PvP system. The first question I'd have to face if it were up to me, however, is how such an in-depth system from a game with a different universe could possibly be applied well to a game such as this one... and how it could be applied without detracting from the canon, etc.

I honestly don't have a full answer for that. I'm a fan of some of the series but I was never a "real trekkie" per se and I don't really think I know enough about the storylines, the universe in itself, etc to give specifics on things. However, I can say that having PvP based on general distance from safe areas other than specific zones would not only be more immersive and realistic, but also simply make things a little more exciting for folk. Say I'm a “Bad Person (tm)” of some sort and I want to try and attack that small ship leaving a starbase. I do it, and the local governing authority pretty much kicks my butt. Or if I try to do so enough, or even do so in areas monitored but not well enforced (such as the low security areas in EvE) I'm blackmarked and simply targeted on sight by the authorities in question, thereby providing additional protection to the defenseless who I would otherwise have an opportunity to target. It's a really rough set of ideas that would need to be balanced, applied properly, etc... I'm not offering some universally epic PvP system. But I do believe a system very similar to EvE's would work very well in this game, provided the appropriate mechanics were in place (same as any other system).

Thoughts, comments, threats to my personal wellbeing?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 146
09-22-2008, 11:34 AM
how do I get started with the game I get to home page but cant seem to find how to start.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 147
09-24-2008, 09:07 AM
Thanks for the update. Looking forward to the game.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 148 ???
09-25-2008, 07:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kestrel View Post
Ask Cryptic returns with answers on story, space, psionics, society, ships and logs. Thanks very much to our development team for taking time out of their busy schedules to answer these!
As we looked closely at the IP and built our story, we realized there were certain truisms we needed to honor. The Federation is an idealistic society that seeks to better themselves and others. It is a fundamental part of Gene Roddenberry's vision – the future will be brighter. Other societies like the Klingon Empire or the Romulans are not evil, but they are different. They are motivated by different values and handle situations very differently than the Federation.
Read more here!
im new to this type of game and i was wondering a few things
1. will you beable to land on pretty much any any planet? if so can you travel around the whole thing?
2. can you go around killling people and thier ships anywhare?
3. do you have lots of hand weapon options in this game, or is it mainly a ship fighting game?
4. how big can the ships get and how many weapons can they hold?
5. how are we going to beable to control are huge ships control, weapons, and shields?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 149
09-26-2008, 10:09 AM
Thanks Cryptic for the FAQ answers.

I like that you're making space a vast area, but keeping it fun and playable is a big plus as well.

Starships are massive and I'm sure hoping that you can keep that promise alive that they'll be massive in-game and to scale with smaller ships. The larger classes truly should dwarf the smaller classes. So many games that's not the case.

Log entries...woot!

That's been a question I've had ever since I learned about STO when PE had it. How are they going to make current-era players keep in line with the future ideals set forth by Gene Rodenberry (mainly ref to Federation players here). It seems that so many do not hold these ideals he has set in ST to their own everyday ideals. How do you make someone in game terms stay in line with that?

Examples: A Federation ship (read: player) is on patrol (doing a mission) and a urgent distress call comes in from a merchant vessel in trouble. Does the real life player do what a Federation captain should do? How is that policed? If the player ignores the distress call (out of ignorance of Star Trek or just pure greed to finish his earlier mission), that would have the most SEVERE of consequences to a captain of Starfleet. How does Cryptic manage this? I guess we'll find out someday!

Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 150 Reminisce and PVP thoughts
09-26-2008, 01:29 PM
Does anyone else remember watching Star Trek when it was on during Prime Time on NBC? Of course, most people were watching it on black and white TV's a the time and the second youngest in the family was designated as the remote control, while the youngest was the auxiliary antenna. Yep - in those days you had to get up to change the channel. Remember that noise? Chunk Chunk Chunk. Oh UHF? Ratatatatatatatata That's back when phones had cords and actual dials. (My kids have never seen a dial phone - isn't that weird?)

OK. PVP. I think that if you beat someone in PVP combat, that you should be allowed to salvage what's left of the ship. Ideally, you would use combat methods which would not entirely destroy your opponent but bleed off his energy and destroy critical systems to the point where you could tow him in. In contrast, in a war situation (PVE) you would want to destroy your enemy and move to the next objective.

I am guessing that Energy will be the essence of combat. Each ship probably generates so much energy and as Captain you need to decide where it goes. (I wonder if we'll be able to play Orion ships?) This concept was used heavily in the game Star Fleet Battles and ended up with a very logical and workable system.

In most combat situations ships need to slow down to sub-light for meaningful combat since if you are going beyond light speed, you are limited pretty much to a straight line. I am not sure what Einstien would say if you fired a light based weapon forward when you travel at the speed of light. I am pretty sure that the weapon would end up behind you since at warp speed you can't actually traverse through all of the space, but a bent facsimile, unless your space warp extended ahead of the ship. Again though, you would be limited to a straight line.

The concept of multiple dimensions is common in the star trek universe, and fortunately it lends itself perfectly well to the actual mechanics of MMPOG. Each dimension could easily be its' own zone or set of zones. What a great setting for an MMPOG setting - you can use extra dimensions to change story lines, explore what-if's and who knows what else.

I love the idea of star ship combat, but if I am on a planet and I hear of a ship approaching at high warp - I am just getting the hell out of there.

If I could choose any race -I think I'll pick Q.
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