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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 31
02-10-2010, 03:55 PM
Quote:
And as for the feddie whining about how cloak stops focus fire on raptors, go fly a raptor, i get focused fire when im recognized as flying a raptor.
I didn't say cloak stopped focus fire all together, but how much worse do you think that focus fire would be if you could be targeted straight out of the gate? If you de-cloak last, there's a chance you won't be noticed for a bit, and even if you do get noticed AND switched to immediately, you'll still get at least a few seconds worth of prime-positioned Rapid Fire in.

The Federation Escort, by comparison, gets targeted from the rear arc by 5 people at the same time, do you really think the Raptor has it worse?

I think a lot of the reason that not many people fly Raptors isn't due to that ship being "bad," but rather because Birds of Prey are so good. When you get down to it, what do you really sacrifice for having Battle Cloak, flexible bridge officer slots, and better turning radius?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 32
02-10-2010, 04:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cocoa-jin View Post
I disagree, mostly with the idea that they have to be clone/mirrors of each other. I think they can be distinct, similar, but distinct. But it reasonable that if one gets a perk, they other should get a comparable perk...just not necessarily the same one. Let each ship follow likeness of the their respective actions in thier builds.
no I mean stat for stat they are exactly the same except the raptor gets stealth. So if the rator gets an icrease then so should the escort as it is already a gimped version of the raptor.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 33
02-10-2010, 04:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cocoa-jin View Post
Simple...give it one universal BO slot. Thats it.
tbh I think universal slots are down to Cryptic not having time to finish the Klingon content in time for launch. They need more ships with dedicated roles, like feds I think.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 34
02-10-2010, 08:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acehilator View Post
95% of us are not using it, and that is exaclty the problem. Way to miss the point.
humor is somtimes lost in translation...
i can explain if you further find the irony escaping your grasp...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 35
02-10-2010, 08:54 PM
Take away all but one of the BoP general slots then the Raptor will be more useful.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 36
02-11-2010, 01:40 AM
From what I have been able to gather at higher tiers it is not so much about firepower but about support skills.
Therefore I like the idea of the Raptor as the Klingon Science ship very much.
Especially because I have read repeteadly that the BoP cannot compete with higher-tier Federation Sci ships in terms of support capabilities.
When what most poeple say is true and the BoP is indeed the "better" escort there seems little use for a second one.
That includes ideas like remaining at the edge of the battle with the Raptor, supporting teammates from there with fire, which sounds like a science/support ship to me.
So I'd propose to give the BoP the Raptor's Officer Stations and console layout and turn the Raptor into a genuine science ship with primarily science officers and consoles.
It would still not be a carbon-copy of the Fed ships since it would remain more maneuverable and would not have the powerful shield bonus.
Of course there would be "concers" that the science Raptor is too powerful so if the ability to carry Cannons were lost that would not be such a big loss for a genuine science vessel right?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 37
02-11-2010, 01:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vuk View Post
Rightly so , this class is the most useless in the game . Few if anyone flies one after tier 2 . Pretty sure Cryptic is aware of it , if they're not they should start looking at the data. The Raptor offers very little in gameplay or appearance , there is nothing Iconic about it .
Raptors itself ARE iconic. They appeard first in the 22. Century when Archer saved a Raptor Crew out of a Gas Giant Orbit. It is a Scout Ship and just because you did not see one in TNG it does not mean it is not iconic. A K'tinga refit or Vo'Quv really is not iconic but a lot of Klingons do fly it so iconic is no real argument. But it is fact that not much players do use Raptors because of it' s disadvantage of not having battle cloak comparing to a Bop. I know two or three Raptor Captains and they do pretty much damage and don' t get destroyed often because of their hit and run tactics. Of course a good Raptor Captains needs a little bit of support like Eng. team, sci. team or extended shields if he is in a bad situation. But if you do so he can make more damage than a Bop.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 38
02-11-2010, 02:50 AM
I believe there is a little misunderstanding about to WHOM it is iconic.
Vuk most likely referred to us, the fans and not the individuals in the Trek universe.
To me, as a child of the 80's, there only were the D7/K'tinga type ships for a long time
with the addition of the BoP in the third movie.
And I was glad to see the K'tinga reappear on TNG in a few episodes, even though it was just
stock footage from "The Motion Picture".
And again during in the 4th to 7th Season of DS9, even if only to be blown up most of the time.
The Raptor appeared only once on "Enterprise" because it was replaced by the Bird of Nonsense
commanded by YAD (Yet Another Duras) in the second Season.
So as much as I like the design there is little iconic about a ship that only appeared in one episode out
of hundreds.
And in 45 minutes out of decades of Trek.
Not to mention that there is little sense in simply scaling up a design and reusing it centuries after its introduction.
But that is another issue altogether.
You can read a few things about it here:

http://ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/scaling.htm
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 39
02-11-2010, 03:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir_James_of_Cadiz
humor is somtimes lost in translation...
i can explain if you further find the irony escaping your grasp...
I have no idea what part of your first post could be considered "humor". English is not my native language so maybe I am missing something.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 40
02-11-2010, 03:51 AM
I find it funny how some people are actually suggesting a nerf to the BoP as a solution.
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