Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 41
02-17-2010, 12:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviathan99
Really. Maybe you should tell Craig Z that so he can stop saying that player created content is something he wants to do.

And Cryptic owns the rights to anything you make in the game.
Unless your bio is based on already copyright works. They can't own that.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 42
02-17-2010, 01:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torue
You Sir are not very well informed its called OPEN SOURCE CONTENT and if you do not charge for it you do not need a license.

I can go make a Star Wars television show if i wanted and air it on youtube like the million other star wars fans that have done this and not have a problem with licenses.
Actually, you could. Because you'd be threatening George Lucas' ability to compete. In general however, most entertainment coporations (aside from 20th century Fox) are lax on enforcement for publicity's sake and fans' good will. They would be legally obligated to take action if they become aware of trademark infringement but they typically don't become aware (wink, wink) if they can help it.

In the case of this game, Cryptic is the legal owner of anything you create and thus anything you create is subject to the Star Trek license they have with CBS, making it "authorized".

In term, CBS' primary interest is in preserving the brand integrity of Star Trek (ie. things that have a defined look match the look they're supposed to have).

In general, in the case of a Holodeck, this means CBS' prime concerns are whether the Holodeck looks appropriate (does the blank grid look like a holodeck grid, reasonably close to ones we've seen before), do the settings honor or add to the visual marketing of the Holodeck within the IP (more on this in a second) and does the system allow for defamatory usage of the Holodeck (ie. they'd want to make sure you can't make Klansmen or sexually explicit scenarios or anything that would give them bad press).

By and large, Cryptic would have a blanket greenlight to anything seen in the shows. This likely includes:

Holmes-ian Victorian London
Dixon Hill's pulp setting
Vic Fontaine's Nightclub
Barclay, Scotty and the Doctor's use of the holodeck to evoke nostalgia for other settings within the IP (ie. pretend you're captain of the Enterprise for an adventure) as well as historical recreation (Riker and Troi's foray to the NX-01 era via Holodeck)
Various generic forest settings
The deck of a British Imperial Ship
Bashir's spy novel-setting
Captain Proton
Da Vinci's Italy

It probably includes other simulated scenarios seen in the IP like:

Alice in Wonderland (from "Shore Leave")
Robin Hood's Sherwood Forest (from "Q-Pid")

Beyond that, Cryptic would have the option to present CBS with other assets for approval, If they wanted, say, Holodeck assets that involve fighting orcs and trolls in medieval castles, CBS would determine whether this was acceptable, whether it represented or added to the spirit of the holodeck as seen on the shows and whether the designs were in keeping with (or enhance) the Holodeck as a property compared with established portrayals.

The approval process is inherently subjective. For example, a Holodeck might conceivably allow you to interact with cartoon characters, Roger Rabbit-style. CBS might decide that this is a brilliant addition and utilization of the concept or decide that it strays too far and dilutes the IP.

In general, however, anything we've seen on a Holodeck should form a reasonable basis for what might be included in terms of "Holonovel Creation Tools", likely bolstered by any costume, character or time period seen in a Star Trek show (Ie. Sherwood Forest, Wonderland, Zefram Cochrane's 21st century, the 1960s, the 1930s, the 1980s). Any art asset not seen on a show would require more intensive approval.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 43
02-17-2010, 01:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Salexander
Unless your bio is based on already copyright works. They can't own that.
If it does, it violates the TOS and is subject to removal or disciplinary action. This is part of why you can't use copyrighted or trademarked works in a character or bio: because, legally, it needs to be something Cryptic can assume ownership of.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 44
02-17-2010, 01:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kassidus View Post
1 simple reason, is people are stupid and people will inevitably ruin and abuse a system ike this.
2 It would LIMIT the ammount of work the devs would have to do, we need more good official content not
player made fluff.
3 would take far too much development time to impliment properly, time better used fixing the game or creating new content.
Ugh i could go on its just a bad idea.

1. Abuse what? The ability to make there own story? To have fun with friends playing a game and not getting anything that affects the main story? I am not seeing any thing you can abuse here. And if you play some other players content and you don't like it so what just do a different one or none at all I realize its not for everyone.

2. You can avoid any authors you consider fluff. And as for the Dev of official content, I can understand the concerns there. But if the Developers where smart they would not stop making new main story content as that is the main game and as much fun as player content would be. I would prefer doing the official raidisodes and such to progress in the main story line of Star Trek.

3. Even though I have never played any CoX I have read that there is a similar system already implemented in those game all they would have to do is polish it a bit and toss it in. but again I would like to see official content added first and have this implemented in at some point through the game.

All in all it would be cool if done correctly but, not on the top to do list. They could work on it once they have a lot more stuff to do in the game already.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 45
02-17-2010, 01:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviathan99
Actually, you could. Because you'd be threatening George Lucas' ability to compete. In general however, most entertainment coporations (aside from 20th century Fox) are lax on enforcement for publicity's sake and fans' good will. They would be legally obligated to take action if they become aware of trademark infringement but they typically don't become aware (wink, wink) if they can help it.

In the case of this game, Cryptic is the legal owner of anything you create and thus anything you create is subject to the Star Trek license they have with CBS, making it "authorized".

In term, CBS' primary interest is in preserving the brand integrity of Star Trek (ie. things that have a defined look match the look they're supposed to have).

In general, in the case of a Holodeck, this means CBS' prime concerns are whether the Holodeck looks appropriate (does the blank grid look like a holodeck grid, reasonably close to ones we've seen before), do the settings honor or add to the visual marketing of the Holodeck within the IP (more on this in a second) and does the system allow for defamatory usage of the Holodeck (ie. they'd want to make sure you can't make Klansmen or sexually explicit scenarios or anything that would give them bad press).

By and large, Cryptic would have a blanket greenlight to anything seen in the shows. This likely includes:

Holmes-ian Victorian London
Dixon Hill's pulp setting
Vic Fontaine's Nightclub
Barclay, Scotty and the Doctor's use of the holodeck to evoke nostalgia for other settings within the IP (ie. pretend you're captain of the Enterprise for an adventure) as well as historical recreation (Riker and Troi's foray to the NX-01 era via Holodeck)
Various generic forest settings
The deck of a British Imperial Ship
Bashir's spy novel-setting
Captain Proton
Da Vinci's Italy

It probably includes other simulated scenarios seen in the IP like:

Alice in Wonderland (from "Shore Leave")
Robin Hood's Sherwood Forest (from "Q-Pid")

Beyond that, Cryptic would have the option to present CBS with other assets for approval, If they wanted, say, Holodeck assets that involve fighting orcs and trolls in medieval castles, CBS would determine whether this was acceptable, whether it represented or added to the spirit of the holodeck as seen on the shows and whether the designs were in keeping with (or enhance) the Holodeck as a property compared with established portrayals.

The approval process is inherently subjective. For example, a Holodeck might conceivably allow you to interact with cartoon characters, Roger Rabbit-style. CBS might decide that this is a brilliant addition and utilization of the concept or decide that it strays too far and dilutes the IP.

In general, however, anything we've seen on a Holodeck should form a reasonable basis for what might be included in terms of "Holonovel Creation Tools", likely bolstered by any costume, character or time period seen in a Star Trek show (Ie. Sherwood Forest, Wonderland, Zefram Cochrane's 21st century, the 1960s, the 1930s, the 1980s). Any art asset not seen on a show would require more intensive approval.

Actually I have a difference of opinion with this because of Star Wars EMU they are taking the game Sony made and restoring it to its orginal self. Sony or Lucas Arts can not take any action against these programmers because Its Open Source. Same thing would apply with player made content. If a player uses a program to create Star Trek content in STO then it is considered Open Source. Also EMU when finished would be threatening Sony and Lucas Arts ability to compete.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 46
02-17-2010, 01:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torue
Actually I have a difference of opinion with this because of Star Wars EMU they are taking the game Sony made and restoring it to its orginal self. Sony or Lucas Arts can not take any action against these programmers because Its Open Source. Same thing would apply with player made content. If a player uses a program to create Star Trek content in STO then it is considered Open Source. Also EMU when finished would be threatening Sony and Lucas Arts ability to compete.
I've not looked at the particulars of this EMU. But...

Sony and Lucasarts can and probably will. Because it uses their code which is NOT open source. (Ie. the SWG game client is NOT open source. And you don't even own the copy on your hard drive according to the EULA.) Also because Lucasarts can absolutely shut down fanfic and anything Star Wars-related that they don't create. In fact, they're legally obligated to in order to retain ownership of their trademarks. They try to ignore it because there's no money in shutting down a not-for-profit fan project and it would require them to spend money on lawyers without getting damages and while damaging the fan community's good will.

But in the case of SWG, you have no right to a pre-NGE Star Wars experience that competes with the live server content and, moreover, whoever is hosting it has no right to host or create Star Wars content, particularly if it's designed to compete with a Star Wars product (ie. post-NGE Star Wars). This is without regard to whether money is being made by doing it, especially as Sony can make the case that they lose money because of it if people prefer pre-NGE SWG. Making it open source is probably worse than making it closed source as it reveals proprietary code owned by SOE which SWG users have no right to reverse engineer.

Shy of a dozen signatures and personal support by George Lucas and the full Sony team, there's absolutely no way I can imagine this SWG EMU being anything but a highly illegal venture that will never go live. Though I'd love a link to read whatever rationale the developers of this project are trying to concoct.

Their best bet would be to create a wholly new MMO which does not resemble SWG or Star Wars too closely and which has similar features to pre-NGE SWG, using NONE of the code or art assets and in no way billing itself as Star Wars or using any Star Wars art assets.

If it uses Star Wars art or the SWG game client in any form, though, there's no way it can be legal.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 47
02-17-2010, 01:42 PM
And player made content is entirely viable. It's just that, similar to the character costume editor, CBS would need to approve what elements can or cannot go in and Cryptic would assume ownership of the finished player-created missions, making them valid, licensed works for which Cryptic Studios, licensed Star Trek content maker, is the legal author and owner of.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 48
02-17-2010, 01:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviathan99
And player made content is entirely viable. It's just that, similar to the character costume editor, CBS would need to approve what elements can or cannot go in and Cryptic would assume ownership of the finished player-created missions, making them valid, licensed works for which Cryptic Studios, licensed Star Trek content maker, is the legal author and owner of.
Here is your link http://www.swgemu.com/

BTW they are live and it is legal because as its stated on their website its Open Source Software.

Also they are using some orginal code from the game and creating there own sorce. However; the gameplay, characters, graphics are the same. They have also been up and running for four years now on this project and Sony can not touch them.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 49
02-17-2010, 01:57 PM
how about a test server?

players can test content generated by other players and devs?

this could be voted upon, maybe even a competition to see who creates the best missions?

the best missions would then be patched into the game

i doubt anything like this would ever happen, but hey
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 50
02-17-2010, 02:14 PM
One quick note: When I'm talking about the Holodeck in terms of player created content I'm thinking more in line with actual Star Trek settings and NPCs that are from the main universe (content you could find in the existing game). Holmes and the rest...might be pushing it. Cryptic's got a very full plate and the function, from their perspective, of player generated content is lightening their load not adding a huge amount of additional asset creation to it.

That said...the option for a empty Holodeck grid room could work out so players so inclined could just sit down and ad lib, in text, any old kind of adventure they want to. Old fashioned MUD/MUSH roleplaying and the bland room design would help keep distractions at bay.
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