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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
02-20-2010, 10:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GnawLF
Lets not talk about balance here. Not only the Klinks dont get the hull and shield capacity that the Feds do, we have no science abilities to target subsystems untill T5 and our Tactical officer get about half of the damage boosts that the Feds get. Once that is fixed then we can talk about the nerfing of stealth.
You lack basic math, which doesnt suprise me, when its comming from a troll...i mean klingon. THose few meager % from heavy escorts/escort traiting, which boosts the attack patterns are calculated from the BASE weapon dmg, not TOTAL, so you hardly miss HALF the dmg. If you used the little brain capacity, which you have left, after you formulated "yet another feds have all the advantages post", you would know it.

Target subsystem XX II is a Lt. tac ability, wich you can get from T2/T3. Sci ships get it free, but the weakest version, which without the T5 gear bonuses cannot disable anything. Dont want beams ? Then shut up about it, everyone can put one beam on his ship. Its your choice to use rapid fire spacebar smash dps race. Please again, THINK, before you post something.

Its lack of basic game mechanics knowledge like these, which makes me sometimes wonder...well...wonder.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
02-20-2010, 11:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cocoa-jin View Post
Any BO skill advantage we get from using it just out of cloak is only beneficial 1 vs 1. There is no devastating AoE or multi-target attack that Ive seen that makes the out of cloak attacks of any significance to a group. Against a group, this temporary 1 vs 1 advantage means nothing.

Its like worrying about the occasional fish snatch form a school or a zebra killed in the herd...yeah it sucks to be the one thats caught, but its impact on the larger group is minimal. If you fixate on just the self, you lose sight of group dynamic for which this PvP is based on.

Your difficulties as one of the 1 vs 1 engagements within the larger group attack means little. Is the group still effective? You getting inconvienced or defeated is only hurting your pride...but the question is weither the group is achieving the objective.

Just because some guy snatches me out of cloak and gets me killed doesnt mean all is lost...because I strive to operate in the interest of the group. I certainly do my best to survive, but my death isnt the end of the world or the match. Me getting ganked by an anti-cloak vessel doesnt change t\he group dynamics that if we play well and as a team, we will more than make up for it.
I disagree, strongly. Consider that, as most admit, Feds need to have teamwork to win - this means a couple things one of which is they need some sci guys and some tanks and some escorts for damage. Maybe the makeup is not essential but certainly, just like working together as a team, a somewhat balanced group is important as well. Anyways, with cloak and focus fire and a couple BOFF skills any klingon group (heck any two Klingons from a group, can quickly and decisively take out one key member of a Fed team (decloak, focus fire on sci ship, tractor beam or VM or some such thing for fast kill) making the rest of the match an uphill battle for the Feds to regain full strength and any organization they had at the start.

The are enough holds and disables (the skill that triggers a global cooldown on the target is one, tractor beams, VM, etc) and whatnot that when combined with cloak and focus fire (which is amped up exponentially in effectiveness by cloak) make it very easy for even a small part of a Klingon team to quickly set the odds, numerically, in favor of the Klingons - moreover, once that numerical advantage kicks in the teamwork and coordination part which is so essential as all admit becomes even harder. Add in to this numerical disadvantage and the disarray and blow to teamwork the fact that Feds are already having to make compromises to raw power in order to combat the cloak/focus fire tactic so each ship lost hurts far more on the Fed side than the Klingon side as not all Fed ships can afford to be damage spec'd.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cocoa-jin View Post
There is no need for us to have to work toward cloak...the cloak is an intergral system....either it is or it isnt. We do however have to work toward improving it. Just like there is no need to work toward sub-system targeting for science ships. Cloaking isnt a skill...its a system....anti-cloak isnt a system, its a creative adaption of available systems/resources to indirectly counter the cloak...so yes, you have to builld and skill toward it.
Then the busting of cloak should be integral for Feds too. Why should Klingons be free to put all their limited resources (boff SP, player SP, ship gear, etc) in to being more effective killing machines while Feds need to waste substantial resources, just as limited, on countering the cloak and resulting combination of tactics? That means each Fed, who is already built for the majority of their game which is PvE anyways is no further out of their element in a damage makeup per ship/captain and to boot not all their ships can even be dedicated damage dealers.

Yes, the better gear for Feds helps on balancing the extra damage propensity of Klingons for the most part but not so much to account for the need for one or two support ships and the ease Klingons have in quickly taking out one or two ships in most any encounter. Besides that, I already suggested first and foremost that the gear deficiency for Klingon's should be rectified, as should the lower ration of time spent playing to player and boff XP awarded. With those things rectified the issue of the advantage of cloak coupled iwth other skills and tactics becomes clear.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
02-21-2010, 09:26 AM
Three things:

1) Being able to cloak your way out of a defeat is in not way balanced. Yes I know they did it in the show but that's hardly a solid starting place. Not if you want a balanced PVP system because no matter how balanced you make it fleet personnel can do all the things everyone here is suggesting to counter but when the Klingon is losing they can cloak at the last second. Almost makes fleet effort pointless.

2) Auto teaming upon entering like some mission is an excellent idea.

3) I suspect the 3rd thing that should be looked at is the weapon options at the similar levels.\

Just my 2 credits don't holler at me.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
02-21-2010, 09:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gHz
Quote:
Originally Posted by GnawLF
Tactical officer get about half of the damage boosts that the Feds get.
How are you coming to this conclusion?
k.
Its simple really none of the Tactical Ship enhancing skills apply to the klingon ships....
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
02-21-2010, 11:13 AM
I won't proclaim to know the math on this but from my experience and even reading the comments of people on the subject of Klingons and Feds I do not think the Klingons are gimped for damage. It seems to me, through T3 on Klingon side and T4 on Fed side that there is decent balance in the damage potency of the Klingons verse the extra toughness of Feds, though feds clearly get better gear that gives them an advantage and I already proposed that this should be evened out.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
02-21-2010, 12:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lugh View Post
Its simple really none of the Tactical Ship enhancing skills apply to the klingon ships....
Do you know the actualy % gain from those skills ? and the cost-effectivness of the skillpoints, if you put them elsewhere ? :-)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
02-22-2010, 01:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zimpak View Post
Three things:

1) Being able to cloak your way out of a defeat is in not way balanced. Yes I know they did it in the show but that's hardly a solid starting place. Not if you want a balanced PVP system because no matter how balanced you make it fleet personnel can do all the things everyone here is suggesting to counter but when the Klingon is losing they can cloak at the last second. Almost makes fleet effort pointless.
I don't even play a klinger, but I know what will be said about battlecloak, because I've seen it end this way before: if you battlecloak while torpedoes are heading your direction, you still get hit with them -- and with zero shields. Honestly, the only problem I have with cloak is when an entire team cloaks for 20 minutes and absolutely NOTHING happens in the match. Those are a major snorefest, and frustrating to say the least. I will say, however, that most klingers seem to have a little more gusto than that, and will still smash themselves on a fedball to get a match going. To that, my ridgy friends, I tip my hat.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
02-22-2010, 07:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gHz
Maybe the visual indicator is unnecessary - just occurred to me as I was typing the rest out. But I think the rest is necessary for a healthy PvP system. IN particular, the cloak changes are really needed, the idea that one side gets a power by default and the counter takes serious building and even then is only mildly counter is pretty silly. It is hardly reasonable to tell a Fed to work for his counter when as a Klingon you get that power at no cost whatsoever. The now cost cloak ability should, at best, be outside of combat range - anything more is Klingons getting something for free that is very costly to counter.
this isnt wow if your looking for fair gb2wow.

cloak is part of klingon combat i like how it works and i play fed. their ships are weak and if your not a ****** one on one will always favor the fed. having a cloak is a great take you by surprise thing.

as in the series feds had to WORK on developing counter cloak abilities so working on it in game makes total sense.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
02-22-2010, 08:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalnar
Do you know the actualy % gain from those skills ? and the cost-effectivness of the skillpoints, if you put them elsewhere ? :-)
As it doesn't apply to the ships I am flying ...no...haven't cared to look.

They really need to remove the skill point cap it will keep people playing.
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