Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
02-25-2010, 09:16 PM
I think we will all need to wait and see what the new death penalty brings before we jump the shark. Adapting your strategy will most likely be your best first course of action. Let the tanks get started before you engage the enemy. I think the light death penalty has made us all fairly lazy in our battle plans. These changes will most likely see the end of the fleet action zerg.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
02-25-2010, 09:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riv_Ryder
No not realy as I indeed find them to turn much too fast. Point being that there are three distinct classes each of them with their own advantages and weaknesses. The fun lies in figuring out a way to play them each successfully and to have them fill specific roles in group scenarios. If you buff up the DPS class so they can tank just as good as the tank then what good does it do to even have different classes.

Also wait and see what the death penalty will be, as I'm VERY confident that it will be nothing to worry about. In fact I suspect it to be something similar to what was in CO.
Well, you get the gist of what I was saying.

I guess I thought the current penalty was already pretty similar to CO's -- you start back at a common spawn point in the zone and you lose effectiveness slightly for a short time.

I hope you're right though; I hope it's nothing too drastic. If they do an XP hit, I likely would switch to Science as my mainstay.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
02-25-2010, 09:20 PM
I support this idea, though not your implementation.

DP being an extremely bad idea (for this game, at this time) notwithstanding, there is no reason to penalize one group of players more than others.

"LEARN2PLAY!!!" is not the correct response. Escorts will always die more than any other class. Its part of the class, there is no escaping that.

Since Cryptic will be adding in a DP, they need to look at Escort balance and perhaps add in a few inert survival abilities to the class in general.

Escorts will die more often, and will suffer the affects of a DP more often.

Does that mean buff escort damage, or speed? Not really sure, but a little modification is worth looking into.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
02-25-2010, 09:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dirtyklingon
having cruisers and science ships are already viable.

science ships absolutely own in pvp. in fact the only matches in t3 pvp i've won were due to science ships.

ia lready play defesnivly using self helaling abilities in my cruiser. and guess what, i still die.
Well since i dont pvp this was not known to me, but thanks for the infor maybe i will start pvping now that i know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by majicebe View Post
Troglis, have you ever played an Escort? The only way I can do "that much more damage" is to have weapon power maxed at all times, then pop Rapid Fire, Tactical Team, Attack Pattern Omega, and EPS Power Transfer at the same time. Because I'm forced to rely on 2 to 4 buffs working in-tandem to out-dps the rest of the zone, I have them doubled up so that I'm not without Rapid Fire or Tactical Team for too long, otherwise I'm just toast. My main is an Engineer, so I at least have some additional "oh crap!" buttons to push every so often -- I can't even imagine being Tactical with an Escort *shudders*. Playing like this is super fun for me, and I expect to explode a lot, which is fine -- that's just part of the class.

What I don't expect is to now be punished for something that doesn't really affect the other classes, but is something they want so bad without understanding how it will affect Escort users.

If we're going to be glass cannons, then there needs to be more emphasis on cannon, or we need to not be punished more than the rest for flying them.
Yes i have played escorts, and I dont care for them. I prefer science ships cause they arent glass cannons and I always run at max weapon power. Why, cause i do decent dps from weapons and i augment that with my boffs skills. I also get those really long lasting sheilds and a decent hull. Do I die? Well of course I do, everyone is going to go boom at some point. I think you problem is your looking at it like they are punishing escorts. While I look at it as they are punishing everyone for getting yourself blown up. As the Captain of my ship i do everything in my power to stay alive and keep my crew alive. I dont fly head long into a group of ships deal what dmg i can go boom and repeat. If this is your stategy then you deserve the dp and all its unholy glory.

Now i ask you have you used at cruiser or a sceince ship? If not, why dont you give them a try? I am not ever gonna tell you how to play or have fun, I am simply telling you that there has to be a trade off. If you want to use and escort then you have to deal with the negatives of it as well as the positives, same goes for cruiser, yeah they can take a but load of dmg but they are slow and cumbersome at best. Science ships while a nice balance on speed and manuverability between the two, and the best sheilds, still dont have the firepower of and escort or the hull of a cruiser. Every ship and class has is good and bad points. The goal its to take both the pos, and neg, and use them to your advantage. Since you know that escorts are prone to go boom, maybe your should think about using a different ship type based on your play style. If you just have to use escorts then your just gonna have to deal with the constant boom, or find someone who will keep you allive so you can do all the fighting.

Since we have no clue what the future dp will be theres no reason to be saying that escorts need to be buffed up for survivability. Now if and when the dp happens and its shown that escorts are getting boned because of it. You and I will be on the same page and both arguing for a change. Untill then, you choose to fly a glass ship, then you have to deal with dying. I choose not to use a flying death trap, no matter how much dmg potential it may have.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
02-25-2010, 10:03 PM
I think what would help is making tactical consoles that increase defense (Chance to miss). That lets you sacrifice some slots used for greater DPS for more survivability instead. Nothing insane, but as it is now, enemies seldom miss you and every hit hurts a ton (relative to the other classes). Aren't they supposed to be harder to hit to make up for their fragile nature?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
02-25-2010, 10:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_Drake
I think what would help is making tactical consoles that increase defense (Chance to miss). That lets you sacrifice some slots used for greater DPS for more survivability instead. Nothing insane, but as it is now, enemies seldom miss you and every hit hurts a ton (relative to the other classes). Aren't they supposed to be harder to hit to make up for their fragile nature?
you would think this is the case, but will all the games issues this is something that has just been over looked, forgotten about, or just not even a concern at this time.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
02-25-2010, 11:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Troglis View Post
Yes i have played escorts, and I dont care for them. I prefer science ships cause they arent glass cannons and I always run at max weapon power. Why, cause i do decent dps from weapons and i augment that with my boffs skills. I also get those really long lasting sheilds and a decent hull. Do I die? Well of course I do, everyone is going to go boom at some point. I think you problem is your looking at it like they are punishing escorts. While I look at it as they are punishing everyone for getting yourself blown up. As the Captain of my ship i do everything in my power to stay alive and keep my crew alive. I dont fly head long into a group of ships deal what dmg i can go boom and repeat. If this is your stategy then you deserve the dp and all its unholy glory.
Now you're jumping to conclusions. I didn't say I fly head long into a group of anything just so I can blow-up, rinse, repeat.

I fight what I think I can beat -- a battleship (with maybe an escort), couple of cruisers, a bunch of smaller ships, and I usually win. The times I don't are usually when I get disabled for 5 seconds by some 'hold' ability, and during this time while my stuff is offline I'm smacked with 3 quantum torpedoes -- then kaboom. Yes, it really only takes 3 quantum torpedoes sometimes to blow-up...

Quote:
Now i ask you have you used at cruiser or a sceince ship? If not, why dont you give them a try? I am not ever gonna tell you how to play or have fun, I am simply telling you that there has to be a trade off. If you want to use and escort then you have to deal with the negatives of it as well as the positives, same goes for cruiser, yeah they can take a but load of dmg but they are slow and cumbersome at best. Science ships while a nice balance on speed and manuverability between the two, and the best sheilds, still dont have the firepower of and escort or the hull of a cruiser. Every ship and class has is good and bad points. The goal its to take both the pos, and neg, and use them to your advantage. Since you know that escorts are prone to go boom, maybe your should think about using a different ship type based on your play style. If you just have to use escorts then your just gonna have to deal with the constant boom, or find someone who will keep you allive so you can do all the fighting.
Yes, I've tried all classes. Science ships are a lot of fun because you do pretty much the same damage as a Cruiser, but fights are more energetic. Cruisers are like cake-mode, imo. They just feel like your flying a giant whale, basically can't be destroyed, and yet do about 3/4 the damage as an escort. It's like playing the game without really needing to try, in my opinion. But then again, that was earlier in the game -- no idea what they're like at endgame.

I understand the principles behind the different classes, and I believe in them. Cruisers are tanks, Science is (supposedly) paladin-type, and Escort is the glass cannon. They all have their flaws and I'm sure Cryptic will get around to making certain changes over time.

Quote:
Since we have no clue what the future dp will be theres no reason to be saying that escorts need to be buffed up for survivability. Now if and when the dp happens and its shown that escorts are getting boned because of it. You and I will be on the same page and both arguing for a change. Untill then, you choose to fly a glass ship, then you have to deal with dying. I choose not to use a flying death trap, no matter how much dmg potential it may have.
Yeah, no one knows what the DP will be, and that's why I gave my options for what I think should happen depending on the type of DP. Whatever the DP is, it will affect Escorts more, since statistically they blow-up a lot more. Given this knowledge, no matter what the DP is (unless it's somehow class-specific DP's), it will affect Escorts more.

The best DP I can think of is simply a money-based one, as in repairs or something a la WoW. If they were to do that, however, they should probably scale it based on the type of ship -- bigger explosions from bigger ships should cost more to repair. That way it could be on a scale of sorts where Escorts aren't getting the short-end of the stick.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
02-25-2010, 11:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_Drake
I think what would help is making tactical consoles that increase defense (Chance to miss). That lets you sacrifice some slots used for greater DPS for more survivability instead. Nothing insane, but as it is now, enemies seldom miss you and every hit hurts a ton (relative to the other classes). Aren't they supposed to be harder to hit to make up for their fragile nature?
That's probably the best idea I've heard. Dodge-chance! Classic! This would be a perfect trade-off. Sacrifice 5% damage for 5% dodge or something.

Fantastic.
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