Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 Turrets/Beams
02-26-2010, 08:21 AM
The new build of the week seems to be an all turret build. The strategy is to gain altitude over the masses and mash the space bar as all their weapons fire. This takes advantage of the opposing players not being able to point their ships in all 3D directions. So they sit above the masses knowing it will take time for the target to climb to an elevation that will allow their weapons to bear.

I would like to know how a turret mounted on the top of a ship could possibly shoot down or have arcs in every single direction. This needs to be addressed IMHO. There should be no weapons that fire 360 when we are unable to rotate our ships up and down 360.

Turret fire is also very tough to see as it is tiny and hard to pick up with the busy backgrounds of pvp instances.

The same point can be made for beams. Beams should not be able to fire in some directions as the beam would have to travel through the ship to reach the target.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
02-26-2010, 08:39 AM
I guess you have never heard of dorsal and ventral beam arrays. If you notice, starfleet ships, especialy on saurces, have both dorsal and ventral beam arrays. Its the limitation of the engine anyway, dont see that happening unless we get a complete 3D engine, with 6 shields facings (normal+dorsal,ventral) as it was seen in bridge commander.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
02-26-2010, 08:58 AM
There is no place on a ship that would allow for full 360 targeting. At some point you would have to fire through your own ship.

I could see Top, bottom, front, rear and sides but there is no way they could all fire everywhere. That is all I am saying. Even turrets should have some type of firing arc.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
02-26-2010, 10:43 AM
There's another reason why turret ships are going to be popular in PvP: Feedback Pulse, #2 OP skill atm (after Subnucleonic Beam), does not work versus cannons and turrets...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
02-26-2010, 12:03 PM
You know FBP does not last the entire map and has a fairly long cool down.

The real problem is that fed rarely use Cannons. Cannons require more than just space bar mashing. You actually have to point your ship at your target.

At the current rate of nerf we will all be shooting at each other with rubber band guns and spit wads.

OMG I got killed. Nerf everything but me and my skills!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
02-26-2010, 12:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike111
You know FBP does not last the entire map and has a fairly long cool down.

The real problem is that fed rarely use Cannons. Cannons require more than just space bar mashing. You actually have to point your ship at your target.

At the current rate of nerf we will all be shooting at each other with rubber band guns and spit wads.

OMG I got killed. Nerf everything but me and my skills!
45 Seconds is a long cooldown??
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
02-26-2010, 01:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike111
You know FBP does not last the entire map and has a fairly long cool down.

The real problem is that fed rarely use Cannons. Cannons require more than just space bar mashing. You actually have to point your ship at your target.
The cooldown is not so long, and I've already encountered Klingons having it twice to keep it up half of the time.

And then wait... you accuse Feds of not using cannons? You do get that

a) The good cannons can only be mounted on 1/3 of the available ships (DC and DHC, only on Escorts)
b) Even if they could, try to "actually point your ship at your target" with a Cruiser
c) especially when Klingons deliberately decloak 9km directly ABOVE you, making it impossible to properly aim Dual Cannons at them if you're an Escort
d) all that while Beams are archetypical of Federation, so these should in no way be just inferior to turrets/single cannons
c) and even with a typical Dual Beam + 2 DC + Torp combo on an Escort, you get shredded into piece by just one beam being "feedbackpulsed",
d) which happens to all the 4 people trying to kill one single Carrier and all have to stop their attack as they would die if not so, and still end up with <50% hull left because even that single Beam weapon fires long enough to do serious damage if you frantically stop attacking every time you get damage, "just in case" it could be FBP and not a BoP decloaking and shooting behind you?


Seriously, there is two skills that are definitely and vastly overpowered: Subnucleonic Beam and Feedback Pulse. Just because you haven't experience so could very well just mean that you're particular build is not so susceptible to or even taking advantage of those (e.g. cannon/turret only ship, Science character using one or both themselves).


Whatever you may believe or not, a skill that you can just activate, that then kills pretty much everyone (!) attacking you unless they stop attacking early enough (you can't just stop shooting as soon as you realize what's going on, as all energy weapons have firing cycles that always complete!). Being able to survive it by targetting yourself and getting of at maybe 40-50% of your hull left, maybe less, already means it is overpowered!


The way PvP is now, if you are flying a Cruiser or Science Ship, a Turret loadout actually is the way to go. Oh btw Rapid Fire buffs turrets, and is far superior to Beam Overload...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
02-26-2010, 01:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike111
There is no place on a ship that would allow for full 360 targeting. At some point you would have to fire through your own ship.

I could see Top, bottom, front, rear and sides but there is no way they could all fire everywhere. That is all I am saying. Even turrets should have some type of firing arc.
The firing arcs include dorsal and ventral. If you notice, when you're below the enemy, your dorsal phaser beams fire, and when you're above your ventral beams fire. Similarly, with turrets for each slotted weapon, at least 2 turrets would be mounted (dorsal + ventral) just as phaser beams are. Don't think of each slot as a single, physical weapon. Think of it more as they have mounted X number of weapons to encompass the desired firing arcs and elevations.


Plus, it's a game, just FYI.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
02-26-2010, 01:15 PM
I guess the OP feels beams are utterly overpowerd, and their arc (the only thing wich is great about them). needs to be nerfed :p More of, he doesnt understand the canonical dorsal and ventral phaser arrays

Shall we equip our ships with peanuts launchers, so you have no trouble to survive ?

Even if some cruiser wanted, they CANT equip cannons, so dont blame them for using the ONLY options they have, beams/turrets.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
02-26-2010, 03:40 PM
I am scissors.
Paper is fine.
Nerf rock.
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