Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 51
02-26-2010, 07:42 PM
The same people who are losing in pvp now, will still lose in FvF pvp.

I'll play fvf pvp because then I can go do some pve while bored.

Like I said, the only redeeming thing about KDF is instant pvp. After this change, there will be so few KDF that no KvF queue will -ever- pop.

reminder to the op: there are no 'klingon' players. anyone can play any faction. there some pvp oriented players, but their motivations for remaining in an unfinished faction are decreasing, as we are seeing
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 52
02-26-2010, 08:07 PM
Yeah, I'm only doing it myself cause I don't feel like waiting for queues on my Trill.

When FvF comes I'll just switch right back, and finally be able to put my VM/SubNuc/Tyken's to good use on a few feddies. Pretty funny that the bad players seem to think anything else will happen.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 53
02-26-2010, 08:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilElder
You can have all that if you give up the OP universal stations and Carrier. Oh and Cannons on every ship type - uh how bout no.
I would much, MUCH, prefer any of my sci ships I had fedside to these klink ships. Damn things are made of tissue paper. Having cannons doesn't mean much when your own defenses are so weak their beams still do more to you relatively than your cannons do to them.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 54
02-26-2010, 08:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meat_Machine
Yep!

I feel like WoW broke some people. Everything is about bigger numbers. What about just playing for fun? Remember that?

That being said, I'd love loot in pvp =)
I'm of the same opinion. I miss player-driven/made content. I miss the rewards being wins and using sound tactics/strategies.

I don't mind loot in PvP either, but to me the best thing in any MMO came (or console for that matter) is being an underdog and winning... That's a better reward than any loot could give.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 55
02-26-2010, 08:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anxiety
I would much, MUCH, prefer any of my sci ships I had fedside to these klink ships. Damn things are made of tissue paper. Having cannons doesn't mean much when your own defenses are so weak their beams still do more to you relatively than your cannons do to them.
My feelings on the Bird-of-Prey are mixed. I'm having a blast playing one. While they have their weaknesses like any other ship, the higher tier I get with them the more I feel like they might be a bit out of whack. The issue, I think, is not that they can be configured as any ship type, but that the higher level versions can be configured as multiple ship types.

Federation Science Vessels and Escorts can never have more than a single use of Reverse Shield Polarity at any tier; that is available only to Cruisers. Whatever your feelings on the prevalence of Reverse Shield Polarity are, this does put a hard limit on the survivability of the other classes. Without support from their team, they can withstand focused fire from the enemy team for only a short duration - and that's as it should be, really.

But a Bird-of-Prey can stack Reverse Shield Polarity, and still have access to the top-rank Science Bridge Officer abilities, or an Escort's weapon loadout and supporting abilities like Cannon: Rapid Fire, at the same time. A higher tier Bird-of-Prey can fill the roles of two ship categories at the same time, and while it is undeniably less effective at those roles than a dedicated ship, I'm not sure that it's enough less effective to be considered balanced.

The fact that the Raptor, which is almost identical to a Federation Escort (possibly better, as they cloak, so at least they get the luxury of not being immediately focused), is generally held to be useless at all but tier 4 (and marginal there) should pretty clearly demonstrate that there is a bit of a problem.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 56
02-26-2010, 08:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Genosaurer View Post
My feelings on the Bird-of-Prey are mixed. I'm having a blast playing one. While they have their weaknesses like any other ship, the higher tier I get with them the more I feel like they might be a bit out of whack. The issue, I think, is not that they can be configured as any ship type, but that the higher level versions can be configured as multiple ship types.

Federation Science Vessels and Escorts can never have more than a single use of Reverse Shield Polarity at any tier; that is available only to Cruisers. Whatever your feelings on the prevalence of Reverse Shield Polarity are, this does put a hard limit on the survivability of the other classes. Without support from their team, they can withstand focused fire from the enemy team for only a short duration - and that's as it should be, really.

But a Bird-of-Prey can stack Reverse Shield Polarity, and still have access to the top-rank Science Bridge Officer abilities, or an Escort's weapon loadout and supporting abilities like Cannon: Rapid Fire, at the same time. A higher tier Bird-of-Prey can fill the roles of two ship categories at the same time, and while it is undeniably less effective at those roles than a dedicated ship, I'm not sure that it's enough less effective to be considered balanced.

The fact that the Raptor, which is almost identical to a Federation Escort (possibly better, as they cloak, so at least they get the luxury of not being immediately focused), is generally held to be useless at all but tier 4 (and marginal there) should pretty clearly demonstrate that there is a bit of a problem.
In the hands of a smart player, the abilities that a BoP can give you are indeed downright awesome.

To balance it a bit, the weaker hull and shields and firepower all up front is what's in game.

Personally, I don''t care for the ability stacking... in any way. Attack Patterns should not stack... When has anyone heard Picard say "Attack Pattern Delta and Beta Ensign Crusher!" RSP sure as shi'ite should not stack so you can spam it.. etc...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 57
02-26-2010, 09:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Genosaurer View Post
My feelings on the Bird-of-Prey are mixed. I'm having a blast playing one. While they have their weaknesses like any other ship, the higher tier I get with them the more I feel like they might be a bit out of whack. The issue, I think, is not that they can be configured as any ship type, but that the higher level versions can be configured as multiple ship types.

Federation Science Vessels and Escorts can never have more than a single use of Reverse Shield Polarity at any tier; that is available only to Cruisers. Whatever your feelings on the prevalence of Reverse Shield Polarity are, this does put a hard limit on the survivability of the other classes. Without support from their team, they can withstand focused fire from the enemy team for only a short duration - and that's as it should be, really.

But a Bird-of-Prey can stack Reverse Shield Polarity, and still have access to the top-rank Science Bridge Officer abilities, or an Escort's weapon loadout and supporting abilities like Cannon: Rapid Fire, at the same time. A higher tier Bird-of-Prey can fill the roles of two ship categories at the same time, and while it is undeniably less effective at those roles than a dedicated ship, I'm not sure that it's enough less effective to be considered balanced.

The fact that the Raptor, which is almost identical to a Federation Escort (possibly better, as they cloak, so at least they get the luxury of not being immediately focused), is generally held to be useless at all but tier 4 (and marginal there) should pretty clearly demonstrate that there is a bit of a problem.
Yeah, part of my problem is I try to avoid 'cheap' stuff. Hell, I'm running my current BoP as a Tyken's Rift/Tachyon Beam user. It's.....okay-ish. But it's no VM/SubNuc.

But anyways, I think they should only let you slot 4 'points' worth of one skill as a balance mechanic to begin with, where each 'point' is how high in the tiers a skill version is. So, say, you can have a sci team III and a sci team I but no sci team III and sci team II. And skills that start in higher tiers, like rapid fire, would likewise be worth one more 'point' each because of it, so rapid fire II would be worth 3 points, and so on.

With that system you could have two RSP I's, but that would be the max. And that already is pretty bad, so I really don't know why they don't cap it at something like that.
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