Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 71
03-01-2010, 07:23 PM
I just completed this horrible mission.

Please delete it or rewrite it so that once me as a player/Captain starts to suspect something fishy, then I should be able to question one of the Romulans or Zelle.

Again, this mission is basically forcing me to commit war crimes and should be fixed before the next patch or deleted from the game.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 72 Stories in STO
03-01-2010, 10:20 PM
I'll say something not directly related to this thread, but it might be relefant anyway. If not, sue me.

I play RPG games all the time, both the PC/video game versions and the old dice and hand drawn maps style of thing. (hand drawn is more computer drawn now, but dot important I think ) The point is i have played them, and been DM/GM both in AD&D and now recently Star Wars Role Playing Game, where I create a story about once a month. Elaborate, intriguing, plot heavy stories that often go over several sessions. Stories that makes Divide et Impera look like the pre-school kindergarten contraption that it is.

All right, I might be a bit extreme but that is ME, one person with work, reading books, writing other fiction for fun and playing video games... still having time to create an enganging story once a month for my (admitantly few) fellow players. Other games manage it, creating a compelling storyline that does not evel look the smallest bit alike. And me. Alone. How many people are working at Cryptic? I don't know, but still the best stories the manage to produce are linear four to six room repeatable stories where they only insert new aliens and new names? And a few slighly better ones that makes me want to go an take a shower?

I know this is not a single player game, I have said it before and I'll say it again, I am no fan of MMO's. But even WoW and *** had more engaging story lines than some of STO's stories. I like this game, they are NOT the forementioned MMO's, I am a huge fan of Star Trek and by all means, I enjoy most of the missions if I only play a couple a day. But really Cryptic, is this all you have to offer? Hire ST writers, or fans even to create some stories that makes me want to come back and play that mission again. With multiple choices!
I too wanted to confront the admiral (which is also an immortal it seems, since grenades exploding in my face where she also was did not faze her one bit) and ask her what the hell was going on. I also wanted to punch the Section 31 agent one, but at least he was more honest. (not to mention human, or at least still appeared to be) THAT mission was better.

Well, I may have made my point by now so I'll stop before someone arrest me for loitering.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 73
03-01-2010, 11:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RachelGarrett View Post
Hello,

I just finished "Divide et Impera" and I'm a bit puzzled. After clearing the first room, finding no WMDs there and reading in the Romulan computer that the place was all about discovering Undine, I was quite sure what was going to happen.

The problem is, the mission was a one way road and I had no alternative to outsmart Zelle/8472. Why? In "The Defector" Picard finds an option to do both: Make sure, the Federation is safe AND prepare to doublecross the bad guy's plot. I think one should have the option to end the mission prematurely and not to force the player to walk right into the trap. (I don't mean beaming up and dropping the assignment)

I know, this mission may be important for the overall story arc. But it is really unsatisfying to be forced to do all the wrong things for the wrong reasons and help the bad guy win without wanting to. In interviews Craig talks so much about giving the players choice and how important it is. Well, I feel, if you can not mount a mutiny against what are clearly immoral orders, than the game does not allow for much choice at all. And why the heck am I rewarded by Starfleet with loot and merit for almost certainly igniting a second war front?

Sorry, that was really a lowpoint so far regarding storytelling. And so far it was surprisingly good!

Regards,
Rachel
I made the same thread in Open Beta. So i agree with you of course.

http://defiantsquadron.net/files/pic...-et-Impera.jpg This pretty much sums up that mission.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 74
03-02-2010, 02:45 AM
I agree, this mission is awful. The idea was cool : for once you make a mistake. But it is so obvious, it is such a blood bath and it is so poorly executed that it fails completely. Even worst : you get a reward for it ! SF merits and blue kit for murdering a bunch of innocents ? OK, you were under orders, so you shouldn't (maybe) face court martial but to be rewarded ?

Very very very poor storytelling, absolutely untrek, insult to the player's intelligence. By far the stupidest mission I played so far.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 75
03-02-2010, 04:59 AM
Bah you all roleplay paladins too much =) So you killed a few civilians and what? I liked this mission because it had some story in it, no matter some morals and ****. You like more missions that tell you to scan 5 lifeforms on a planet???
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 76
03-02-2010, 05:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Excorant View Post
Bah you all roleplay paladins too much =) So you killed a few civilians and what? I liked this mission because it had some story in it, no matter some morals and ****. You like more missions that tell you to scan 5 lifeforms on a planet???
Yep, a lot better than one with this kind of story. There are a lot of good episodes in this game, but Divide et Impera is just crap in its present form.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 77
03-02-2010, 05:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Tar
Yep, a lot better than one with this kind of story. There are a lot of good episodes in this game, but Divide et Impera is just crap in its present form.
Hmmm... but from the posts I still didnt fully understand where the problem is... Is it in the naivity of the mission... meaning that its evident you shoot civilians but game thinks you are stupid not to know? Or is it the fact that you dont like this mission because its morally wrong to kill civilians? Or is the problem in this mission to be not fitting into Star Trek lore?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 78
03-02-2010, 05:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Excorant View Post
Is it in the naivity of the mission... meaning that its evident you shoot civilians but game thinks you are stupid not to know?
THIS is the main problem. The game dangles the fact that you are helping an enemy kill a bunch of innocent medical personnel in your face for the whole mission after finishing the first room. It's not an "Oh ****, she tricked me!O_O!" It's an "WHEN ARE YOU IDIOT FINALLY GOING TO REALISE WHAT YOU'RE DOING???" In roleplaying terms: The mission rips me out of my character because I can't make him react to his environment the way he should.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Excorant View Post
Or is it the fact that you dont like this mission because its morally wrong to kill civilians?
It's wrong. But it could actually be a good mission. Even Picard was tricked into killing innocents one time (it took however a complete brainwipe of him and his crew to make them kill 53 innocents, and that was in ship-to-ship combat). If it would be made in a realistic way it would be acceptable. If we then would get a follow-up mission where we can redeem ourselves it would be good. If we could make a choice it would be perfect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Excorant View Post
Or is the problem in this mission to be not fitting into Star Trek lore?
That's part of the problem. Star Trek was always about doing the right thing, even if it is going against orders. We are forced to do the wrong thing by a game mechanic even though our superior is an impostor.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 79
03-02-2010, 05:45 AM
To K-Tar:

Hm okey, I respect this reasoning. To be honest I am roleplayer as well and love roleplaying games, just I think roleplaying in MMOs is weak in general so I dont play them for roleplay. If I want good RPG I just play singleplayer ones. I agree that forcing player to do a thing he doesnt want is somewhat stupid in a storyline. I finished Dragon Age: Origins recently, and well - there I had option to join a group of warriors called Grey Wardens. I didnt want to join and on all occassions I refused to join, but still was forced in the end no matter what I did or said. Such thing doesnt add to the atmosphere and one should always have more choices how to do things in RPGs. But as I said, MMOs and STO is no exception, have very weak roleplaying stories, so this mission isnt something I personally would find troubling. But I can understand some people see it otherwise.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 80 Not in disagreement
03-02-2010, 10:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Excorant View Post
To K-Tar:
I finished Dragon Age: Origins recently, and well - there I had option to join a group of warriors called Grey Wardens. I didnt want to join and on all occassions I refused to join, but still was forced in the end no matter what I did or said. Such thing doesnt add to the atmosphere and one should always have more choices how to do things in RPGs.
Dragon Age... Whoa, didn't expect to see that game mentioned here. Well, it is a good game though I have not played it much yet. My version of the game had a tendency to freeze at exactly the same time with two different characters... But that is not why I mention it.
Yes, you have no choice in the matter in joining the Grey Wardens, but I feel like that was sort of the point. The story revolvs around your characker as the last Warden trying to stop the invasion of the Horde or whatever. Maybe that is just my impression however.
The "last" warden? As far as I remember you are accompanied by a GW SENIOR to your char., and you also discuss finding "the other wardens in hiding" after raising an army. Again this is only my impression but I found it a bit strange...

Bute really, if you want more freedom play games like Fallout 3 or Oblivion. In F3 you CAN'T join any factions as such, though you DO get to be a real knight of the steel if you download broken steel. Possibly you can become an enclave soldier if you want to "join" that faction, but I am a nice guy in most games. :p
Oblivion is just the best game in the Elder scrolls series so far. Liked Daggerfall, Morrowind not so much (though it had good music, carreid over in Oblivion in a way) Never playd the first ES, can't comment on that. Yes, you might call them explorer games rather than RPG's, but they are both I think. RPG's? ROLE PLAYING game? In essence you are just playing a role struggling/dancing through whatever environment the game/GM throw at them.

Not much RP in STO at the moment though, most MMO end up as "glorified chat rooms" as one member wrote, though not of this game (yet). Why do I always write so much, I never intend to when I start... Oh well, live with it or don't read it. It's up to you.
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