Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
03-04-2010, 10:31 AM
Totally unenjoyable.

Challenge is good. Mindless waves of stupid trash with large health/shield bars is not.

This mission has convinced me to cancel my subscription. I'm not playing STO for terribly implemented ground combat. I was really hoping to see some well executed space missions, given that it's abundantly clear that ground combat is a problem. Instead we get a 10 minute space battle followed by an interminable hour+ of ground crap.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
03-04-2010, 10:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wildfyre010 View Post
Totally unenjoyable.

Challenge is good. Mindless waves of stupid trash with large health/shield bars is not.

This mission has convinced me to cancel my subscription. I'm not playing STO for terribly implemented ground combat. I was really hoping to see some well executed space missions, given that it's abundantly clear that ground combat is a problem. Instead we get a 10 minute space battle followed by an interminable hour+ of ground crap.
I didn't mind that at all, but bosses that can kill you within 5 seconds when you have absolutely no way to mitigate that? C'mon.

I expected fun. I was really enjoying STO up to this point, but if this is what the game is going to be?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
03-04-2010, 10:41 AM
I was a part of a really great team. we didn't bicker and complain until we tried everything we could possibly think of to kill the Borg Leader. We probably spent more time on the borg leader portion of the mission than the rest of it, just trying to figure out how to kill it. We laughed, we fought. Taking down the 4 shield generators wasn't even a problem after the 5th time or so. The only problem we had was figuring out how to kill the borg leader lol. (which I believe to be high impossible at this time). Everything about this missions is great. Other than the invincible boss.

4 tactical officers and an engineering officer comprised the team.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
03-04-2010, 10:42 AM
I'm not sure Cryptic really has any idea how to make enjoyable ground missions. Right now difficulty = huge numbers of enemies doing silly amounts of damage. There's so little opportunity for personal skill to matter at all in ground combat, since you have a maximum of maybe 6 abilities. It's so simplistic compared to space combat, and yet nearly every major plot mission involves substantially more ground combat than space combat.

I spend dozens of exploration badges upgrading my ship. I spend hours reading and testing different builds to understand how the mechanics interact. When I'm all done, I blow up some bad guys and then I'm told I have to shelve my ship to run around for hours killing identical, boring Borg soldiers by the hundreds. When I finish THAT, including the repeat killing of respawned Borg along the way, I get to enjoy a jumping puzzle set in the painfully obsolete and ugly ground engine where a mistake means instant death. Then, assuming I finish that, I get to fight a boss who can 1shot my entire team.

Just...not good. STO is desperate for engaging endgame content, and this is not it. This will cost you subscribers.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
03-04-2010, 10:50 AM
seeing im stuck at work for still some time i hope i can find a group when i get home tho.
sounds hard and fun and you cant face roll your keyboard for free purples like some games i know.
ofc this will probarly get watered down to be very ezy in next patch.

1 question tho did any 1 try to bring a science? atm all i see is our group was 3-4 tactical 1 engy or the other way around.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
03-04-2010, 10:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JediNg View Post
I was a part of a really great team. we didn't bicker and complain until we tried everything we could possibly think of to kill the Borg Leader. We probably spent more time on the borg leader portion of the mission than the rest of it, just trying to figure out how to kill it. We laughed, we fought. Taking down the 4 shield generators wasn't even a problem after the 5th time or so. The only problem we had was figuring out how to kill the borg leader lol. (which I believe to be high impossible at this time). Everything about this missions is great. Other than the invincible boss.

4 tactical officers and an engineering officer comprised the team.
Your last sentence reminded me that I didnt post my team makeup when I tried this - we were 3 Tactical, 1 Engineer, 1 Science. Our first one gone was a Tactical. The second was Science. That left 2 Tacticals and 1 Engineer scratching our heads, taking our phasers and going home. :p
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
03-04-2010, 10:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyg316 View Post
Your last sentence reminded me that I didnt post my team makeup when I tried this - we were 3 Tactical, 1 Engineer, 1 Science. Our first one gone was a Tactical. The second was Science. That left 2 Tacticals and 1 Engineer scratching our heads, taking our phasers and going home. :p
Haha, that's awesome then. We had fun through all those crazy borg swarms. I think it was all right. WE laughed pretty hard about making bee-lines to the node things that don't let them die. Didn't have any ****ing contests, arguments, uncooperativeness, or other such nonsense. It wasn't until we couldn't do the shield part that we got more serious-like and devised a plan to do it. but after that, we took it pretty lightly. The only thing we're disappointed about is that we cannot find a way to kill the boss lol.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
03-04-2010, 10:58 AM
LOL the respawn rates are wowza

i have dubbed the mission:

CE2: the wrath of spawn!

HERE BE SPOILERS!!! YE HAVE BEEN WARNED!!!

so here are my thoughts after playing this (almost) all the way thru.

i understand that there was griping over the easy nature of the original mission and cryptic amped up the difficulty. wow did they ever.i realize that they wanted to make a difficult high end mission for the rear admiral 5's out there, but seriously this is HHHHAAARRRDDDD...

first off, the initial space combat, while hard, is very doable especially with a good team that works well together. with a death penalty it will make it very very ahrd. you do die quite a bit as it stands now. the loot drops however... WOWZA!!! out of this world. great drops. well worth it. the problem starts when you hit the ground part of the mission.

there are a ton of borg to go thru which , is understandable. that is how the borg operate, massive numbers. what makes the first part of the ground mission is that it seems that every borg has the root ability and use it over and over and over again. there were many times that we would get rooted and by the time it wore off, you just get rooted again. serious suckness. there were actually many times that we died without even getting to fire a shot. in my opinion, this needs to be toned down a lot. if they reduced the number of borg that have the root ability, it would make this part much more playable and a lot less frustrating.

now then, since you die a lot, it brings up my next point. there is only one spawn point until a certain point in the mission. that means that everytime you die (which is a lot) you have to run the whole way back to where you were fighting if you can't get rezzed. our whole party died several times. again, when the death penalty is introduced, this is seriously going to suck. we were often running almost 200 meters near the end of the first portion of the mission. not cool. there needs to be at least one more spawn point during this part of the mission. please please please please!!! i am begging you. two would be cooler.

the next part of the mission was quite fun and we all enjoyed it immensely. this enthusiasm was short lived however, once we hit the last room... okay, who came up with this torturous room? i want to pull his toenails out slowly and then feed them to him. LOL really it is not quite that bad, but until you figure out the best way to do this part of the mission correctly and efficiently, it is a great big pain in the ass.. i would also like to point out that there needs to be more directions here. "okay we disable these thing-a-ma-bobs, now what. when are we supposed to upload the virus and why?" trust me i checked the log and the notes, this could be better explained. i loved the premise! don't get me wrong. it is just a little murky as the mission briefing stands now.

the final aggravation in this mission is when you finally release the "borg queen" and you have to defeat her. groan.... she was one shotting our entire group. two shots at best. seriously, this was not fun. once you figure out what you are supposed to do, when, makes it so you can finish the mission but wow. talk about frustrating. you have to realize that we were into hour 4 at this point. (yes it was our first time thru for all of us so i am sure we can cut that time down a bit with later playing) we were all tired, and a little on edge and snappy. dude we just want to finish at this point.

now i know there were people who will say, "it's supposed to be hard" and maybe even call me a whiner, but honestly, this is TOO hard. pull back the diffuculty by even 25% and it would be a much better and more well received mission. difficult and satisfying will be the end result. secretely i think that cryptic made it this hard on purpose, just to stick one in the eye of the complainers that it was too easy and to slap a big fat gag in the mouth of the most vocal of the complainers. lord knows i am tired of them, i can only imagine what cryptic's opinion of them is, not to mention their frustration level with them.

so, i would say GREAT MISSION! WHOOO-HOOO! wow this is star trek! just pull back a little and some tweaking and it will be perfect.

thanks for your time and i hope you found this informative.

peace,
FVA stoneyface XC
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
03-04-2010, 11:26 AM
I'll be honest: I was frustrated by this mission as well. However, seeing how people have presented thier criticism... I'll try to make this more constructive and less whiny.

My group, whom I believe was 3 tactical, 1 engineer and me (science) did okay until the starbase ground portion of the mission.

The space combat was tolerable, though it's my belief that it was slightly too difficult - as it was, I was the one whom died the least times, and that was still 3 - others died many more times despite flying cruisers. You see... I'm of the opinion that at the average skill level a pick-up-group should have at admiral rank that player death should be an exception and not something to expect out of such a mission.

Seeing that my team in space was reasonably cautious and managed to get at least around 15 deaths total, I consider that somewhat overblown. Teams of 4 probes and a sphere could've been 2 probes and a sphere, for example. Ultimately, I'd have expected such a mission to possibly have people die from harder objectives, yes, but I wouldn't have expected more than 5 deaths total.

The ground segment was where this really suffered. This being an all captain team, there was hardly any 'AI-delivered healing' and most captains go for offensive setups. It turned into a tedium of people confronting each rooms, dying repeatedly, and running back to regroup just before said room to try again. Number of deaths? I stopped counting after 5 minutes.

Ironically, I ended up missing my bridge officers.

We got through the 3/4 circle portion of the starbase and were stopped cold there. Previous borg encounters were respawning and that slowed us down even more (with regular respawns too). One of our teammates decided that he was wasting his time (I agreed, but stuck to the team so to not abandon them and leave them no chance of winning) and he left, making the efforts of the rest of us moot. We never got even close to the boss.

Personally, I think the difficulty of the ground combat portion lacked moderation. I could sort of swing with encounters that would be stiff and have 2 of 5 people keel over, requiring others to scramble to ressuciate them. This wasn't the case. The difficulty went far beyond that, and the threshold I see between fun, tolerable, tedious and an exercise in futility. I also do not feel this should require voicechat to gain the coordination needed to perform.

In this case, it seemed like resistance was futile. Just not for the good reasons from this player's perspective. I wanted Star Trek Online to be more challenging, yes, but the Special Taskforces go overboard in my opinion. nothing before them really prepares the player to face their degree of difficulty (the closest being ground fleet actions) - and that should say something.

My advice to people going in that mission...
~ You need solid communication and teamwork. You'll still die, but if you have at least that, it'll be less easy to do your team in.

~ Before each encounters, if you can prepare, do so: engineers should definitely set up fortifications, turrets, mortars, etc...

~ Be patient and get to know what the others can do. If people can throw anesthezine gas/dampening fields/grenades at a group of clustered borg drones, let them do so first. With any luck, this could expose some of them and kickstart a tough fight in favor of your side.

~ Status Ailments abound in there. Roots and Holds are a large part of why people end up being defeated. Being able to counter that may make a big difference (those are kits I understand are less valuable to the solo Captain, though).

~ You need both shield and health heals. Science captains being expected to provide healing alone is just not enough.

~ Borg use anti-proton weapons, if I'm not mistaken. They also perform a lot of ranged attacks. Energy Dampening Armor and personnal shields that offer anti-proton resistance could help you last longer.

~ The borgs have nodes that permits them to just be briefly stunned upon defeat instead of beaten. As long as those nodes are up, you can't even vaporize them when they are exposed (WTF?! If I manage to expose them and deplete their health that way, they should anyways!). There's no easy way to dispatch the nodes in this mission, but once you do at least the zombie hordes from cyberhell become killable.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
03-04-2010, 11:38 AM
It took approximately 4 hours for team to take down the Borg queen, but succeeded finally. I agree, the respawn rates are absolutely crazy, especially in the last room. After a couple of tries, we managed to take down the 4 generators WITHOUT uploading the virus before all 4 generators went down. Next we took down the generator. 3 people from our group died instantly leaving a science officer an me as tactical behind. Fortunately the science off had his heal kit in place and after about 10 minutes the Borg queen went down awarding us with the folowing weapon:

Antiproton Bolt Dual Pistol - Sweep MK X

Dual Bolt Setting
Antiproton Damage
16 Antiproton Dmg (32 DPS)
+2% crit chance
+40 crit severity

Bolt Spray
Expose Attack
Cone AoE Antiproton Damage
27 Antiproton Dmg (11 DPS)
+2% crit chance
+40 crit severity

All 5 of us were communicating via Teamspeak which is a must for coordination in my belief.
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