Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 Torpedoes are useless
03-06-2010, 12:49 AM
It has come to my attention that Torpedoes are completely useless.

My main character Aytanhi runs a Tac Escort and in every fleet action and PVP battle I end up on top with nothing but energy weapons.

Torpedoes need to be buffed? Energy weapons need to be nerfed? Discuss.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
03-06-2010, 01:53 AM
Neither Fleet Actions or PvP is necessarily a good place to judge, as it is very easy for a good player to stand out from the average crowd.

Torpedoes are fine in the lower tiers.

In the higher levels, I agree though that torps fall behind.

The problem is two fold.

First, energy weapons scale with attack power and as we level, we raise that attack power, with things like engineering consoles, EPtWeapons, and Starship Weapon Systems Performance. So, given that torps and energy weapons scale equally across marks, torps wind up scaling worse than energy weapons.

Second, due to the limitations of torpedoes, energy weapons tend to make up the majority of our damage. This means we tend to go with tactical consoles that boost our energy weapons. So you're looking at a 60 to 120 point skill edge for energy weapons over projectiles. Unless someone deliberately tries to do less damage.

And that means that with 125 weapon power and 3 uncommon Mk X tactical consoles, a single Mk X beam array, a 250 degree arc weapon, will out-DPS a photon torpedo Mk X, the highest dps torp, especially against shields. Because to support the torps is not optimal.

So, between those two things, torps serve 3 primary functions:
1. A weapon to fallback on when you reach the limits of what your attack power and its power transfer rate can handle.
2. Burst damage, typically using HY quantums or a tricobalt.
3. Roleplay.

To fix it, I believe two things should be done:

1. Torpedoes should scale slightly more than energy weapons. Not too much, but a little.

2. We need energy + projectile weapon consoles. Probably with something in the +23 or so to both skills range.

The second is really the more important of the two. A console like that would make it more viable to mix and match different weapon types, which currently is pretty much a huge disadvantage.

That or we need DR on skills, so as to encourage us not to use all the same console. That would upset a lot of people though.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
03-06-2010, 02:04 AM
You have no idea. 1 beam 3 different torp tubes on front +64 torp damage from comsole High yeild II Spread Alpha Strike and fire on my mark III. I very rarely die in PvP or PvE
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
03-06-2010, 02:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevscar View Post
You have no idea. 3 different torp tubes on front +64 torp damage from comsole High yeild II Spread Alpha Strike and fire on my mark III. I very rarely die in PvP or PvE
Very specialized build though.

That's why I want to see the consoles that boost both torps and energy weapons, so torps are useful for something more than burst damage.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
03-06-2010, 02:09 AM
It,s how you play them, different flight speeds and cooldown times. If you bother to work it out. You can fire the first on e with ALPha Strike Fore on my Mark and High Yield. Cooldown will allow you to fire second so that it arrives at the same time as the first. doing max damage. Third is fired as first 2 hit.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
03-06-2010, 02:13 AM
I guess it would be more accurate to say that mixed weapon type builds take a big hit.

If you focus on torps and use your tactical consoles to support it, you gimp your energy damage. If you do the reverse, you gimp the other. If you try to support both, your overall DPS suffers.

This doesn't fit Trek lore. In Trek, ships carry and use both, even small things like runabouts.

Hence why we need a console that provides skill for both energy and projectile weapons, so that the cost to trying to make both effective is not as harsh.

Not to mention that entire set up breaks down in non-solo situations. You won't get that optimal set up each time. Especially in a big furball. And as we get more raidisodes, that'll be more common.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
03-06-2010, 03:57 AM
Torpedos arent used much in canon though. Its like the gun on a jet fighter...you can put all the fancy missiles and gear on a fighter, but dont dare design a fighter without a gun. It was tired and the Armed Forces say they'll never do it again. Different missisles and bombs can be loaded for task at hand, but the gun comes pre-equipped and installed in the plane.

Perhaps standard torpedo load outs need to be pre-mounted into the ship so they dont take up slots. Any additional tubes would have to be mounted into weapon slots.

So energy weapons can continue to be the main, DPS weapon of canon...with torps being the burst damage weapons of canon.

You can use them to help drop a target's shields or to batter the hull after shields drop....but standard torp load outs(hull mounted) shouldnt force you to sacrifice energy weapons(unless you desire to mount extra tubes).

I'd assume Cruisers and Science vessels would all have 1fore and aft tube standard as non-slotted hull mounts by T2, while Escorts and BoPs might not get the aft tube until T3.

I still agree that energy weapons scale up too much.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
03-06-2010, 07:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miogaruna View Post
It has come to my attention that Torpedoes are completely useless.

My main character Aytanhi runs a Tac Escort and in every fleet action and PVP battle I end up on top with nothing but energy weapons.

Torpedoes need to be buffed? Energy weapons need to be nerfed? Discuss.

That's funny. When I got my escort captain to level 11, I loaded up 3x quantum torpedoes with a photon in the rear and went to do the Gorn minefield fleet action. I came out on top by a huge margin.

Energy weapons are easier to use for sure. Torpedoes require a bit more thought and effort. If you have torpedoes, you need to use them not sit on them, and you need to also learn how to time them so that you can fire them so that they will connect with a target's shields soon after they drop. The AI will turn away from you if you wait to shoot until after the shield is down.

When you use torpedoes properly, you can kill stuff ridiculously fast. Attack pattern beta or sensor scan, a skilled up mk X photon launcher and a torpedo console or two can give me high yield 1 hits close to 9k each at RA5. If I relied only on beams, it would take a lot longer to kill, even if the target didn't turn its shield facing, which it definitely will.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
03-06-2010, 01:30 PM
I find HYT Quants are excellent when paired with my carrier's Ramming speed. Easy 40k+ damage burst.
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