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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
03-10-2010, 01:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt_Dravis
Slightly off-topic, but... criticising ideas for being less important than other priorities does not, and should not, diminish the merit of the idea.

I don't see how changing in-game Klingon text -- to be in line with canon language -- diminishes anyone's gameplay or entertainment.

As for priorities, I think the DEVs are well aware that other content should take precedence. Does that mean this should never make it onto the list at all?

Lastly, I saw a criticism of this idea from the standpoint of fiction vs. real life... Well, all of Star Trek is fiction, but it has an established canon that separates it from other fiction. A specific Klingon language is part of that canon, complete with its own rules and vocabulary.

Now, I'm not suggesting that any game developer needs to learn this language for the sake of the game, but I do think it would add to the immersion if canonical phrases were somewhere on the list of things to do for the Klingon faction.
Agreed.
Correct usage of the Klingon langauge should be added to the list of things to fix.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
03-10-2010, 01:18 PM
Learn a made up language. LMAO. Is Pig latin a language too? Hey I bought a communicator at a Trekkie convention....I wonder if it really works. Maybe I can call Worf and have him check out this game...........Oh yeah he is not real. made up just like a Klingon language.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
03-10-2010, 01:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike111
Learn a made up language. LMAO. Is Pig latin a language too? Hey I bought a communicator at a Trekkie convention....I wonder if it really works. Maybe I can call Worf and have him check out this game...........Oh yeah he is not real. made up just like a Klingon language.
FYI:

-mathematics is a made-up language
-English is a made-up language
-C++ is a made-up language

What is a language? It is a collection of words (vocabulary) with a set of rules (syntax, grammar) for using those words.

In the Star Trek TV shows and films, Klingon characters are not speaking random sounds. They had a linguist create a language for them to use for the sake of continuity.

Is this -- creating a whole language just for fiction -- geeky? Yes. (See J.R.R. Tolkien, author of Lord of the Rings, and also a professor of linguistics. He created -several- languages.)

Should this be in the game? In my opinion, yes. We already have some of it. For consistency, change the inconsistent parts to be consistent.

EDIT: Similarly, is playing a computer game, where you are a character in Star Trek, geeky? Yes.

Reverse argument. If everything is just random made-up bits put together, then give me a lightsaber and Star Destroyers. Also, I would like to fly into battle on a dragon. Why can't we have this? Because Star Trek, in legal terms, has an established canon. The Klingon language is part of it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
03-10-2010, 03:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt_Dravis
FYI:

-mathematics is a made-up language
-English is a made-up language
-C++ is a made-up language

What is a language? It is a collection of words (vocabulary) with a set of rules (syntax, grammar) for using those words.

In the Star Trek TV shows and films, Klingon characters are not speaking random sounds. They had a linguist create a language for them to use for the sake of continuity.

Is this -- creating a whole language just for fiction -- geeky? Yes. (See J.R.R. Tolkien, author of Lord of the Rings, and also a professor of linguistics. He created -several- languages.)

Should this be in the game? In my opinion, yes. We already have some of it. For consistency, change the inconsistent parts to be consistent.

EDIT: Similarly, is playing a computer game, where you are a character in Star Trek, geeky? Yes.

Reverse argument. If everything is just random made-up bits put together, then give me a lightsaber and Star Destroyers. Also, I would like to fly into battle on a dragon. Why can't we have this? Because Star Trek, in legal terms, has an established canon. The Klingon language is part of it.
Ignore him, he's just a troll.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
03-10-2010, 04:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koriel View Post
I've noticed the Klingon phrases used in the game come from a variety of sources, some good, some bad, and some weirdly out of context.

But when you do the /mokbara emote, you say this phrase:
yIn Daq joH'a' tuq reH

In Klingon it's not grammatical and it's pure gibberish. But I figured Cryptic lifted it somewhere so I googled it and found a website of a guy who purports to translate Bible passages in Klingon. He uses an English-Klingon computer lexicon to look up the Klingon approximation of individual English words and copies them down still using the original English word order. Even though he's been doing this for years, he pays no attention whatsoever to Klingon grammar, syntax, or the actual meaning of the words themselves.

According to his site:
yIn Daq joH'a' tuq reH is supposed to mean
"Live in the house of the Lord forever", a paraphrase of Psalm 23.

I don't really care about the inappropriate religious message but I'm annoyed at the appalling misuse of the Klingon language in the game. You can't just look up English words in a dictionary verbatim and call it Klingon. The Klingon language has it's own unique grammar. It reminds me of the Monty Python's Life of Brian scene where Brian writes "Romanes eunt domus" for "Romans go home!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsawP_Ew0r4

Cryptic, if you want to put Klingon phrases, please do it right. Please don't use crappy computer Klingon from dubious sources off the web. If you want to say this correctly in Klingon, use something like:
reH joH'a' juHDaH bIyInjaj (May you live in the house of the Lord forever.)


Another translation that annoys me in the one you use for the Undine - something like qa'meH quv which purports to mean "one who replaces honor with dishonor". The phrase you use actually means "honor of replacement" which makes no sense.

"One who replaces honor with dishonor" would be: quv quvHa'ghach je tamwI'
Or simply: quv tamwI'


Cryptic if you need help with your Klingon, send me a PM. I used to be one of the grammarians for the KLI.
My god man... way too much time on your hands. I hear spanish is nice.... also, it's used all over the world instead of just amongst nerds.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
03-10-2010, 05:48 PM
I have a problem with this for a completely different reason. Mainly I want people to keep their religious delusions to themselves. I personally think religion and other superstitions is one of the main plagues afflicting mankind in the 21st century, and I certainly don't want it infecting us from the 25th century.

Delusions held by one is called insanity, delusions held by a few is called a cult, and delusions held by many is called a religion.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
03-10-2010, 06:00 PM
I smell a future gimmick for quests.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
03-10-2010, 06:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWalkingLost View Post
A little off topic how is the Klingon in my Signature, asking the OP of course since he said he used to do Klingon Institute work...

heh just curious.

Sujatlh 'e' yImev TodSaH! Hab SoSlI' Quch!
"Shut up geeks! Your mothers have smooth foreheads!"
When insulting multiple geeks, use the plural.

Sujatlh 'e' yImev toDSaHpu'! Hab SoSpu'ra' QuchDu'.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
03-10-2010, 06:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteppenRazor
My god man... way too much time on your hands. I hear spanish is nice.... also, it's used all over the world instead of just amongst nerds.
I had six years of Spanish in school. I also took courses in Japanese, German and Latin; I have a degree in Russian; I taught myself Esperanto and Klingon; and I've causually studied a bunch of other languages. I just enjoy learning languages.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
03-10-2010, 06:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koriel View Post
I've noticed the Klingon phrases used in the game come from a variety of sources, some good, some bad, and some weirdly out of context.

But when you do the /mokbara emote, you say this phrase:
yIn Daq joH'a' tuq reH

In Klingon it's not grammatical and it's pure gibberish. But I figured Cryptic lifted it somewhere so I googled it and found a website of a guy who purports to translate Bible passages in Klingon. He uses an English-Klingon computer lexicon to look up the Klingon approximation of individual English words and copies them down still using the original English word order. Even though he's been doing this for years, he pays no attention whatsoever to Klingon grammar, syntax, or the actual meaning of the words themselves.

According to his site:
yIn Daq joH'a' tuq reH is supposed to mean
"Live in the house of the Lord forever", a paraphrase of Psalm 23.

I don't really care about the inappropriate religious message but I'm annoyed at the appalling misuse of the Klingon language in the game. You can't just look up English words in a dictionary verbatim and call it Klingon. The Klingon language has it's own unique grammar. It reminds me of the Monty Python's Life of Brian scene where Brian writes "Romanes eunt domus" for "Romans go home!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsawP_Ew0r4

Cryptic, if you want to put Klingon phrases, please do it right. Please don't use crappy computer Klingon from dubious sources off the web. If you want to say this correctly in Klingon, use something like:
reH joH'a' juHDaH bIyInjaj (May you live in the house of the Lord forever.)


Another translation that annoys me in the one you use for the Undine - something like qa'meH quv which purports to mean "one who replaces honor with dishonor". The phrase you use actually means "honor of replacement" which makes no sense.

"One who replaces honor with dishonor" would be: quv quvHa'ghach je tamwI'
Or simply: quv tamwI'


Cryptic if you need help with your Klingon, send me a PM. I used to be one of the grammarians for the KLI.
Can you name a official source for the Klingon Language?

There is none, the Klingon language is made up, just like Elvish, and the language of the Navi.

Your statement makes no sense, since there is nobody who uses Klingon for commerece, communication and disimination of information in the execution of everyday life it is about as official as the language of Wookies.

So if the source is from a dubious website, a dubious college who offers the useless language as a elective or a dubious book, it is all dubious.
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