Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 81
03-13-2010, 03:57 PM
I have an issues thread for Ground PvP here if you're interested.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 82
03-13-2010, 08:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
Fair enough.



And Harleqwin, good point, again. Exactly what the imbalances are. But honestly, I would be leaning more towards changing or removing these abilities from the game all together rather than removing them from the klingons and making them available only to the Feds.

But it can't stay as is either, this is a great point.
Sorry i have not replied yet, yesterday after my last post i just closed the game closed the forums and went to play something else, I was not happy at all and pretty much upset following 12 straight PvP matches.

But I have been thinking about this a great deal all day. Time to share of some thoughts.

I have see this issue in other games, for instance Warhammer, in the beginning everyone was so happy , positive threads everywhere, praising Mythic praising the game, then slowly as people leveled up and more abilities became available the reality of CC over use started appearing the game was new, and it suffered from other issues so it took sometime before PvP was even looked at.

By the time it did all they did was add timers and the such yet by then it was all too late, people had become so fed up with CC that had already mentally quit the game, the physical quits followed shortly thereafter.

I bring up Warhammer as an example because it is recent, still fresh in memory and because it was also a game with a very well known IP, I been a fan of it also for years, been playing Citadel Miniatures table top games.

They tried to take the Warhammer setting and make a game that was very similar to WoW...in so doing they missed the mark..they alienated old **** population and they also alienated Warhammer fans...they lost on both sides..the rest as many of you may know is History...MMORPG.com, TenTon hammer...etc.. Reviews and criticism started poping up and the Release of the Lich King gave it the last blow.

One would think that a Star Trek game would somehow be immune to such things, yet I feel that Cryptic by implementing a Combat System that is based on the same principles as Fantasy games, will suffer as well, because while your aim maybe to offer a similar experience to players with a familiar gameplay only set in a different universe you are opening yourself to be smashed the same way. In reality many players are looking for something different not something that sounds and plays the same way with a different dress.

Second, you are directly competing in terms of mechanics with a competitor that can afford to invest 1 billion dollars in to their next expansion if so they wished, and blow you out of the sky.

I know I am comming from a long way with this reply, yet it all does link together and there is more at stake here from various perspectives that actually affect our experience as players.

WoW clones have failed and they will continue to fail, simply because so many people have invested so much time in that game and while they are open for something different that could possibly make them stay there something different has not been provided, so if as a Player I am to play the same game as WoW then why bother doing so when I can simply go back to WoW where I have a fully develloped character just waiting to embark on the new content. Therefore, people leaving WoW do so temporarilly.

On the other hand Star Trek has such a big fan following and I am sure this game here brought many people to the MMORPG genre for the first time, and instead of offering to the fans an experience consistent with Star Trek itself (or at least as much as possible close to it) we are alienating them as well by introducing them to mechanics that have nothing to do with Star Trek and everything to do with fantasy games.

Maybe the reason why it is like that is a complex one maybe it was based on the Closed beta test as well since chances are most Beta testers had previous MMORPG experience..who knows and I would rather not speculate.

The simply point is, that Combat in Star Trek right now is nothing like Star Trek, yes the abilities all have some type of name taken From star Trek but the mechanics are not Star Trek, the framework in which these abilities are used as well as the ways these abilities are used have nothing to do with Star Ship Combat.

In a melee based Game you would want some type of Root, or Stun Lock , Fear mechanics to balance the melee with the Ranged Clases, in star trek (space combat yet to a certain extent ground too) not only we are not playing with a single character in space (even if a single player controls the ship), but also there is not reason for Roots and snares and Stun Locks when all combat is Ranged.

I am not throwing punches with my star Ship to the enemies, I am opening fire with its Weaponry, Same as a naval battleship against another, I do not need to stop my enemy to shoot it, when it is within range I can shoot it, and my enemy cannot Kite me either.

Secondly, in a Fantasy game, i control the movement and ability usage of one character, I do not control a ship that have multiple functions such as Shield management and Power management on top of it therefore requires multitasking in an of itself to function. In a fantasy game I do not have to multitak in order to operate the character, I only multitask to when that character is part of a team and the role of it is to offer support to teammates, throw a healing spell, a debuff, root the enemy, fear them etc..., since I have nothing else to look out for than a Life bar and the position of myself, my team and the enemy team.

In star Trek I have a ship to run and fine tune in Real time during the combat and a mechanic based on Support abilities is simply not compatible.

Therefore the Team game play cannot be the same as in a fantasy game, where it consists of Tanking, Healing DPSing and CCing.

One approach would be to make the ship controls more simplistic yet this has a negative aspect to it, as the ships will fell even less like ships, and the fun of captaining a Star Ship is exactly the level of complexity that it implies. Many people even want multicrew ships do you know how complex that could be in a Computer game within the limited ways that we have to interface with the virtual world we play in, to say nothing about RL realities that can;t be dismissed but would be perceived as interfering.

So making the control of the Ships themselves simpler than it is is really not the solution, it would totally feel untrek.

Hence... Huston, we have a very big problem in our hands.

And that problem is presently in the lap of the Devs who, in my opinion need to take a very hard look at their fan base and the game as well as the experience which they want to offer to that fan base, which has a certain number of expectations when it comes to their beloved subject of entertainment.

You want to continue imposing them mechanics of a Fantasy game just because it seems a familiar ground in an attempt to possibly lure more people from the competition but at the risk of losing many new potential adepts of the genre? Or do you implement a system betting on all these fans and offer something different (possibly even better) than the competition?

If STO had appealed to even Half the Star Trek fan base, it would end up with more subscriptions than WoW, there is many more millions of Trekers out there than there is WoW players. Is that really such a big gamble to take?

blizzard did it, they made a game for their fans first and foremost and they won their hearts and minds, why can't the Star Trek IP do the same?

Give us a combat system that is worthy of Star Trek please, and let us the players thereafter explore its intricacies embrace it and have fun.

I was reading another thread talking about how FBP is the counter to beams and how it does not apply to Cannons, and I was dumbfounded by it...

How can we have a mechanic in the game that counters one's primary way of dealing damage to the enemy? This is not Damage mitigation like shields and armors these are part of the way combat is made it is why these were develloped, but to have a counter for it is completelly illogical...and does not make sense at all.

FBP was used ONCE in ONE episode amongst all of the Episodes and Movies in the Star Trek History yet we face it every single day in combat in this Game. I am sure VM and SNB are the same because honestly I have watched all of the episodes and all of the movies and I have trouble to remember when these were used.

I do not remember the Enterprise using any of these abilities against the Klingons or the Romulans in TOS, i do not remember Kirk using any of thist against Khan either, the Numerous battles of DS-9 we see no CC what so ever, we do not see Shields in action either to be honest, but that is part of the action drama that the directors chose for these episodes to make the battles exciting and reflect loses within their allotted time, yet...the fact remains that most people would expect and envision Space combat being about tactical maneuvering and tactical operations using the primary weapon systems inboard their own ships, exchanging of fire, damage and damage mitigation, emergency repairs, and communication.

Then there is so many other things that just smell wrong, example being hit by a computer viral matrix, even if it would shut down all of the systems in a ship immediately (you would think that there is security measures in the 24th century too, a firewall an anti-virus etc) even if this was the case, why does the ship stop on its tracks?

This is Space? There is inertia momentum and no friction if it was going at a given speed it would continue going to that speed even if the engines were rendered inoperative... but you see, your offering a magic system to sci-fi fans...it smells fishy, and it shows that you are not taking under account to whom you are trying to sell your salad to.

In closing, all I know is that the clock is ticking, and the WoW fans that like to continue applying their familiar CC tactics dressed as spaceships will not think twice canceling this game once the next Big expansion from WoW comes out, and at the same time your turning away your Star Trek fans by trying to impose them a mutated version of the universe they have come to love and cherish.

And I am sorry for the one that have "Wall of Text" Allergies, but there is just too many things that are wrong with the current system's approach in my eyes.
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