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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
Ok I know I have posted this idea already, but it's not copy/paste and it's a bit of a shortened version. I think I may have confused people with some other stuff I threw in there, but my main focus was on this change. That being said...

Officers and DP!?!? Ok here is my idea. This is going to require a bit of work and I"m sure the cryptic team would groan if they read this (which I HOPE some of you are!!!). There are a couple things you need to do in order to impliment the DP system, and they can happen in a series of patches or in-game changes, which I am sure will not OP the game or give other players certain advantages. This is basically taking what you have now, and connecting the dots. If this is off your dev course, then plz I beg you put it on. Here's how it goes.

It all starts with your officers, and your talent tree. The talents should be grouped a little differently. When I first started playin the game I was almost cunfused as to what the talent tree even was. Then at second rank the next teir lit up and I started to understand how it worked. But honestly, you really need to fix the talent tree so that your talents are linked. For example, in the engineering section of your talents, where it shows you all the shield skills, have those linked together. Start with the first shield, then go to the second, so on.

At higher ranks you will end up with several different shield skills, because you would have to acquire them in secquence. Also, if I put a point into any shield skill, it should somehow increase the stats of the shields themselves, not just the officer talents that use them. And it is not very clear when a talent actually *does* increase the power of your mods. So, having them linked, will at least give the player a good idea as to what they are striving for.

That would be impliment 1. The launch of the updated talent tree. Implement 2, is how the officers interact with the tree.

In order to increase your talents, you should make it so that you have to have officers trained in those fields. For example, if I wanted to work up my beam weapon tree, then I would have to have a tac officer that had a certain amount of points spent in that category. If I want to tune my talents to beam weaponry and shield tanking, then I would need to increase skills like Beam Overload, Fire at Will, and for my engineer emergency power to weapons, or emergency power to shields, etc.

It would work really well, because say I was a tac officer, and I wanted to be a missile boat, I would more than likely end up sticking with my escort ship, instead of taking a cruiser, because it has 2 tac slots. The abilities of the officers that are used to increase your talent tree would be determined by who you have in your bridge slots. You should be able to be free to rotate your officers so that you can up your talent tree in different fields. This also works out because you would have to have points spent in those officers anyway.

There are many advantages to having your officers and your talent tree linked. It would make players build a relationship with their bridge officers, and it would also make players want to keep them. Skill swapping would slow down and players would be more tempted to stick with not only the skills they set out for themselves, but their class of ship too. There are too many pilots out there flying cruisers. It's unfortunate that there is no more advantage of being a science officer in a science ship, to being an engineer in a science ship. This new system would fix that issue (and that's kindof a biggy..).

So that would be the second stage patch. Now that the boring details are out of the way, time to get to the juicy stuff. The final stage to all this is the DP system itself.

This all starts with how the DP system interacts with the previous patches, mostly the officer patch. It's pretty simple though. When you die, one your officers will temporarily loose points in their highest ranking ability. Your next death reduces your ability further, and also reduces the next rank down skill your officer has. The skill loss is determined by whether you are in space or ground combat.

This *temporary* loss is a cooldown, for say 2 hours, or 12, 24 hours, so on. You get the point. It's not 30 seconds. There is a reason for this. I'm sure ppl reading this are now groaning. Awwwww maaaan wuddya mean! Oh but wait, this is just to warm you up.

What happens if you die enough times is your officer completely looses their skills, to which you cannot repair. It is gone and you must invest new points into that skill. If you further continue to die, you will loose more skills at much, MUCH faster rates, and evenutually, officer death. When your officer dies, he is gone. This might only take 10x for you to die. If an officer dies in ground combat, they are not actually *dead* until you yourself die. It's always possible to revive people.

Loosing an officer isn't all that bad, but what happens is, you are not able to train your talent points in certain areas until you have an officer in your bridge slot that is trained in those fields. HOW ABOUT THAT EH? So the DP system relies on the officer system, which relies on the talent tree system. That's why this has to be implimented into 3 patches, or all at once, or soemthing. But the thing about replacing your officers, is that you usually have a list of recruits waiting anyway, and it gives you the opportunity to try out new builds, and also lets you use some of the more elite officers! So it's not really all that bad. Plus, there is also a part of the DP system called DP Tokens.

DP Tokens allow you to retrain your officers. Technically you should have just enough points as you level up to train your officers, and have a few points left over to spend on officers. But a bad run of dying a lot can really cost you some major points, and you will run out. So, when an officer dies, you get a certain amount of DP Tokens in return.

What tokens do is help you retrain your officers. It's kinda like having insurance on the points you have spent. Now, the amount of tokens you receive will certainly not be enough to train all your skills to max, but one token should equal one skill level. You should receive only enough tokens to train one or 2 skills, depending on what rank the officer was. If you train a skill to 9, then it will cost you 9 tokens. For ensign officers, you receive say 4 tokens to replace the 1 skill of that officer, then it's up to you. It might be a good idea to scale the amount of DP tokens received with how many points were spent on the officer.

DP Tokens can also be used to alleviate the cooldown you receive on your officers when you die. You can use a DP token to refresh an officer from 1 death, and so on. So having the ability to collect DP Tokens from all areas of the game would be ideal. People would be able to farm them, or they could be offered as mission reward as well as the current mission reward. But in any case, they should be very rare, and an officer would only have a few of them, and would really need to make a decision on whether or not to use it to alleviate the cooldown.

And now for the juicy part!!!!! Not only can DP Tokens be farmed (might find say 10 per rank), but they can also be purchased from the CP store. A DP Token would cost say, 25 CP points. That way, people actually have a reason to give you $10 here and there for 100 DP tokens.

P.S. This idea is always subject to change and is strictly my idea, so if you think you might have a change to add feel free to post it. If you like this idea, then please post a reply of your approval. The longer this post stays at the top the more likely it is that a Dev sees it and likes the idea! TY
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
03-18-2010, 07:57 PM
I think you're right about the skill tree - it needs to be re-worked. There is no clear progression of skills, they basically threw a bunch of skills out there and gave you points to spend. It's also very vague as to how or in what way spending points affects the skill...

Linking the skills to officers is a nice idea and a cool thought, however I'm going to say I disagree that your bridge officers should govern your ship's inherent abilities.m What I believe they should do is seperate *your* skills from your bridge officers skills - in otherwords, the skills we train as captains of the ship should affect any ship that we pilot where bridge officer skill points should effect only the bridge officer abilities. Say for example I'm a engineering officer in a science ship but I love Tyken's rift. I train Tyken's rift for my ship, then my bridge officers skills in that area enhance the ability because they are well versed in the ability. If I were to train all 9 points in Tyken's rift it would allow my BO to train "Improved Tyken's Rift" for example. And so on down the ladder. In order for a bridge officer to attain a skill, you must have *enabled* that skill within your tree. This gives you flexibility as a captain, and lets you govern how you want to play the game. What type of officer you are should not govern your skills in space - you should always be able to "go to school" and learn new things.

With that said, I do not like your idea around DP tokens. It is far too complicated and could cause many players to become fed up. There's also no way in hell you'd find me spending money in the CP store to buy things for my gaming experience - especially as some sort of penalty for "sucking" at the game. I pay a damn subscription fee.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
03-18-2010, 09:20 PM
ah thanks for the input. The thing with the DP tokens is that I stress that they will for the most part be farmed, game items that can be given to you through missions or drops, and that buying them in large quantities from the CP store is just another way of obtaining them.

As far as having to train the officer skill inyour own talent tree first, that is a good idea, except that it kinda kills the whole dp system. You think it sounds complicated, but that is nothing compared to EVE. There are much, much more complicated games out there, and when I first started playin this game I was really expecting some complexity and didn't find much. The UI is almost *too*.... friendly. That's my opinion tho.

What I am tryin to offer them is a way to not only deepen the game, but to provide a DP system that seamlessly integrates with STO. They are going to put in a DP system wether we like it or not. I just want to enjoy a good DP system that suits the game and allows ppl to have fun. It's a much better toss at it than "your stuff degrades and it costs you money to repair". I don't know about you, but I find huge repair bills to be lame. Using the DP Token system, players don't need to grind anything extra to pay for the DP.

Also, I wouldn't mind buyin a $15 CP card that gives me a months supply of DP tokens. There are lots of players out there who are willing to pay extra for that kinda thing. It's not meant to take away from paying customers, but more a bonus to those who wish to pay a little extra.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
03-18-2010, 09:57 PM
Yes, EVE has a very complicated skill training system, but it makes sense and tells you what each level of increase does. STO's does not.

And I'm sorry I just disagree that people paying extra money outside of the game get an advantage of sorts. That should never be the case. I think it's okay for them to unlock a character, special outfit or whatever, but not enhance gameplay.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
03-18-2010, 10:30 PM
Originally Posted by lugal317 View Post
but not enhance game play.
Why not?.. It's a great way to cryptic to offer something USEFUL, but not game-breaking that would make them some coin. It ain't unfair unless buying them is the ONLY way to get them. Then they should rot in hell for it.

Far as the skill system goes.. Yes they better fix it, because it's so out of whack, mislabeled and downright UN-labeled, that I think they need their brains checked if they think it's done right. Can't believe one single dev didn't go through and simply add the correct listings of skills during beta.. It'd take an hour or two I bet. Save headaches.

Your DP proposal would work.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
03-19-2010, 12:56 AM
Originally Posted by Wulfeous View Post
Why not?.. It's a great way to cryptic to offer something USEFUL, but not game-breaking that would make them some coin. It ain't unfair unless buying them is the ONLY way to get them. Then they should rot in hell for it.
Well you're right, that wouldn't be fair at all. I'm still of the opinion, however, that being able to purchase perks with real cash that can enhance the game for some is unfair to those that either don't have the money or choose not to spend it.

If I grind some quest for weeks to get some item and I know that everyone else and their mom is buying it off the store for $10.. that's pretty weak. The game - in my eyes - would be highly cheapened.

If you can't offer a good solution to an ingame problem with the sole use of ingame mechanics and you have to have a contingency plan that is.. well.. "if that doesn't work.. you can buy it from us!!" then you're a horrible game production studio.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
03-19-2010, 05:22 PM
right, the idea is not to have to super-grind the DP Tokens. You should have enough through playing the game so that if an officer dies you can replace their skills for the most part, and then top those skills up with the current Officer Point system. The game should also give you enough to be able to refresh your orricers after a death or 2. Also, the devs might consider adding DP Tokens to a merchant, say 10 tokens for 250k energy credits. The real purpose of paying the CP store to buy tokens is to keep on top of the temp debuffs that your officers excperience for dying now and then. I don't know about you but I have only died about a dozen times in STO and I'm almost an admiral. So for me, the whole DP system is not really my concern while playing because I'm good and don't die. Others however do, and there should be multiple ways to attain DP Tokens, and the ones bought thru the CP store would be more for die hard STO fans who always want to keep their officers topped up. There will always be people who totally disagree with spending extra money on a game. I personally do not.

Now I"m gonna start a little rant here on why I feel it's ok to give players the opportunity to have a bit of an advantage if they are willin to spend more money. First of all, the CP store gives cryptic extra income that they would normally not have. I'm sure they set up the CP store with this in mind. Of course game sales and time cards give them lots of money, but how quickly do you think they can develop something with an extra influx of cash? It would give them extra resources they need to make changes faster, which is better for everyone. I hate it when ppl complain about stuff like that. You know what, if people want to spend extra money on the game, then yes they should have a bit of an advantage, because all in all they are doing more to support their game. If you are unwilling to spend the extra cash and want just what the stock game gave you, then that's fine, but don't complain how hard done by you are when ppl spend extra.

You know, it takes time to earn money. I only make $13/hour. So it would take me about an hour to buy bulk DP tokens. That is an hour out of my real life to pay for those poitns. If you spent an hour in game you would be further ahead wouldn't you? There is a reason cryptic put the CP store in there to begin with. It is a springboard for them to receive a bit of extra income should they need it. By being opposed to it, you are basically being opposed to cryptic doing whatever they can for their fans. The more people complain about things instead of being constructive, the worse the game will get. Don't make this another star wars galaxies. Cryptics problems is that they listened all too well to their fans *****in and complainin about not being able to be a jedi, and guess what.. the game got ruined. Don't do the same here. I not only support the CP store but I encourage those who can use it to do so.

Anyway, for those who support the CP system and like my idea, thank you, and please post your approval in this thread. The more people who support this and keep this post at the top of the list the more likely someone from cryptic will see it, and then we will have a well planned and thought out DP system and not just "u die, u loose gold".

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