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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
03-27-2010, 04:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6_of_10 View Post
If I could log on to the game I'd double check the duration and cd on extend shields. I think it's about 30 seconds duration and cd.
It's not an op ability. I can't think of any ability that cannot be countered by another ability or even weapon.
One specific problem is when RSP is chained infinitely, which forces infinite chaining of subsystem warfare vs. shields in order to penetrate it.

Indeed, there are measures and counter-measures, as I explicitly mention. But the problem is when this enforces cookie-cutter builds such that everyone loads (for example) RSP + anti-RSP, or when specific chains (not necessarily RSP) become more important than anything else. That inherently limits our freedom of choice, because we become less effective if we choose any other loadout than the preferred cookie-cutter build.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
03-27-2010, 04:16 PM
I want to hijack this topic to get in my own idea of a solution against stacking skills:

The problem that leads to the solution:
We all know the problem of the tactical BOs: They use skills with 30sec cooldowns. If they want to use two skills of the same system they run into global cooldowns immediatly, making the second skill not really useful (if I wait 10 more seconds I can use the higher tier skill again...)

This is a form of a diminishing return. You can use a lower tier skill before your higher tier one is ready again, but you will send your more efficient skill on an even longer cooldown in exchange. And you have to wait 2/3rd of the cooldown time to use your 2nd skill, preventing you to chain them too fast.

What can we do now to prevent stacking of all the non-30sec-cooldown-skills?

Change global cooldowns to be 2/3rd of the cooldown of the used skill in general.

For example:
You use RSP with a 3 min cooldown? Global cooldown for that system is 2mins, so you can use your 2nd RSP after 2mins, which then sends your first one on the global cooldown, so you can use your first one after 4mins again (timed from the first use). A 3rd RSP would make no sense at all anymore.

You use Viral Matrix with 45 seconds cooldown? Set the global cooldown for that system to 30seconds. After 30seconds you can use another version of Viral Matrix, but you will have to wait for your original, maybe higher tier one, a little bit longer in exchange. A 3rd VM is useless.



This would be an easy solution, making 2 instances of a skill viable, but with diminishing returns, preventing 3. It would also prevent people from using long-cooldown skills in short succession.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
03-27-2010, 04:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roter_Panda
Change global cooldowns to be 2/3rd of the cooldown of the used skill in general.
Hi Roter_Panda,

I'm going to alter your wording slightly to be more accurate with current game mechanics:

-system cooldowns should be 2/3 of ability cooldowns

===

While this is one possible solution, I feel that changing system cooldowns (to be dependent upon abilities) exclusively punishes abilities with long cooldowns, while there are many abilities with short cooldowns that can still be chained.

This solution works best if the length of a cooldown is directly proportional to the ability's usefulness or strength. Such a determination is inherently difficult due to qualitative judgments, and it would also require much more fine-grained tweaking of abilities (i.e., to lengthen and shorten cooldowns across the board) than my proposed approach.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
03-28-2010, 01:45 AM
Abilities with short cooldowns are designed to be chained more rapidly than long ones. Cannon Rapid Fire is designed to use it every 30seconds. If you now take 2 of the same skill you will be able to chain them every 20seconds, which makes the 2nd copy of it not that viable as the first, especially if you take into further account that usually don't hit the button right after CD is off. You can't chain 3. If someone now has to chain 2 different tier abilities, because of the BO slots available, it will get even worse because you will send the more efficient one on a longer cooldown to squeeze a lower level one in there.

This will address the issue that very strong, high cooldown abilities can at the moment be chained quite fast (every 20seconds) until you ran out of your x-amount of copies. If global cooldown is 2/3 of the ability cooldown you won't be able to do so and force a larger gap between the very strong skills.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
03-28-2010, 05:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roter_Panda
Abilities with short cooldowns are designed to be chained more rapidly than long ones. Cannon Rapid Fire is designed to use it every 30seconds. If you now take 2 of the same skill you will be able to chain them every 20seconds, which makes the 2nd copy of it not that viable as the first, especially if you take into further account that usually don't hit the button right after CD is off. You can't chain 3. If someone now has to chain 2 different tier abilities, because of the BO slots available, it will get even worse because you will send the more efficient one on a longer cooldown to squeeze a lower level one in there.

This will address the issue that very strong, high cooldown abilities can at the moment be chained quite fast (every 20seconds) until you ran out of your x-amount of copies. If global cooldown is 2/3 of the ability cooldown you won't be able to do so and force a larger gap between the very strong skills.
My point is that cooldown at the moment is in no way representative of strength or usefulness. Compare a short cooldown ability like Rapid Fire or High Yield to any long cooldown ability.

Also consider that perhaps Rapid Fire or High Yield were not meant to be chained -- or able to be activated so quickly -- compared to defensive abilities that have longer cooldowns. I suggest this might be a possibility because, using current cooldowns, DPS:EHP ratio is so high that defensive abilities are already undermatched, which makes combat far too short.

Your proposed system would only work if cooldowns were actually representative of their ability's relative strength or usefulness. And not just between different abilities, but also between different ranks (e.g., High Yield III vs. High Yield I).

In order to bring abilities' strengths/usefulness in line with their cooldowns, the DEV team would need to change every single ability. My proposal mitigates that necessity.
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