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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
03-30-2010, 07:37 AM
One romulan BoP disabled and almost beat the enterprise in the original series.
Every time you see a BoP in the shows, it was almost always against a cruiser such as enterprise.

Any ship can beat any other ship anytime using the proper loadout and tactics.

Think of modern warfare, a sub if manuvering properly can get so close to an aircraft carrier without detection its pitiful, now being that close how long do you think it will take for the torps to hit it?

The current BoP's are fine as they are, but I do agree that the fed escorts need a bit more hull upgrading, shileds no, but hull yes.

The defiant in first contact was almost totaled, but because of HULL strength it survived. Most liekly the ablative(sp?) armor it had, but it also CLOAKED in ds9.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
03-30-2010, 07:50 AM
If this was a single player game, that would be cool, if this were a pve only game that would be cool. However the dominant aspect of klingon gameplay is pvp. With only 2/3 of the original hull even the tail guns of a cruiser would be a problem. No doubt it would be very clear which of the 3 ships was under player control. The focus would be on that ship, and it would be beyond fragile. Once dealt with the otherships would probably disappear to respawn with the player, and if not are unlikely to activate defenses when under seperate fire.

If, an i say a very big if, those ships could use spare officer bo skills and be independantly activated so that other players must take them into account during pvp (such as using one ship to place extend shields on you, whether you have extend loaded on your ship but used a BO with that skill in the ships officer stations) then perhaps it would not make the idea valueless in pvp, however, the setup could make a bop wing way to powerful with one tac one sci and one engi when engaging other players.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
03-30-2010, 08:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shuyun
One romulan BoP disabled and almost beat the enterprise in the original series.
Every time you see a BoP in the shows, it was almost always against a cruiser such as enterprise.
At that time, the Bird of Prey seemed to have been the strongest type of ship the Romulans had.
It was in essence a cruiser just as much as the enterprise was.

In TNG, the Romulan Bird of Prey was replaced with the Warbird. And the Klingon Bird of Prey stood alongside the Klingon cruiser (K'vort, IIRC?), and I seem to remember engagements (in the Klingon Civil War around Gowron during TNG) where multiple BoPs had to fight against a single Klingon cruiser.

But all that aside - clearly no one wants one player ship to be weaker than alternative choices. If the only way to "compensate" is to complicated to actually implement, then the player ship has get more powerful instead. Which is exactly as it is now.

Of course, as NPC ships, Bird of Preys are definitely weaker than other ships of their size. There is a reason why you typically encounter 3 Bird of Preys at once but only one K'Tinga or Neg'Var in PVE. (I wonder if that's what confusing some Feds in PVP That these ships that you easilly kill in threes in PVE suddenly kill you alone?)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
03-30-2010, 08:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
At that time, the Bird of Prey seemed to have been the strongest type of ship the Romulans had.
It was in essence a cruiser just as much as the enterprise was.

In TNG, the Romulan Bird of Prey was replaced with the Warbird. And the Klingon Bird of Prey stood alongside the Klingon cruiser (K'vort, IIRC?), and I seem to remember engagements (in the Klingon Civil War around Gowron during TNG) where multiple BoPs had to fight against a single Klingon cruiser.

But all that aside - clearly no one wants one player ship to be weaker than alternative choices. If the only way to "compensate" is to complicated to actually implement, then the player ship has get more powerful instead. Which is exactly as it is now.

Of course, as NPC ships, Bird of Preys are definitely weaker than other ships of their size. There is a reason why you typically encounter 3 Bird of Preys at once but only one K'Tinga or Neg'Var in PVE. (I wonder if that's what confusing some Feds in PVP That these ships that you easilly kill in threes in PVE suddenly kill you alone?)
Oh, i'm sure there is some sort of damage modifier to distinguish between pve and pvp, maybe your right and there not seeing it. I personally play both fed and klingon. I love both aspects, and on my sci officer flying and escort i havent had too many issues with BoP's in pvp. In the end, I guess he is just doin it wrong.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25 Consolation
03-30-2010, 08:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 0xygenthief View Post
It would seem this is not a good idea after all. Two pages of replys and only one person stating they would like to try it out.
If it's any consolation to you, I would want this option but at a much higher rank, I suggested a similar option in the 4th thread in my sig under Content Suggestions for the Ranks I have sugested for the Federation, Klingon and Romulan Factions, but it would be a ability with a cooldown time.

Once the player has unlocked the ability at a much higher level, when you have reached a Rank that would allow you to command other vessels in your faction, you would be able to activate the ability to summon a couple of NPC ships that you could give commands to.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26 Flame fail!!!
03-30-2010, 08:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shuyun
In the end, I guess he is just doin it wrong.
Hahahaahaaaa!!!

I am sorry the topic of this coversation is too much for you to comprehend. Flame fail.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
03-30-2010, 09:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 0xygenthief View Post
Hahahaahaaaa!!!

I am sorry the topic of this coversation is too much for you to comprehend. Flame fail.
If you want players to take any of your suggestions seriously 0xygenthief, you need to make sure your suggestions are as clear as possible, and respond with respect, even if you believe your thread has been flamed, or even if someone simply responds with something you don't like.

You obviously have a very creative imagination, and there are plenty of ways to go about putting it to good use, responding to replies as you are will only anger people.

Regards,

Alecto
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
03-30-2010, 09:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 0xygenthief View Post
Hahahaahaaaa!!!

I am sorry the topic of this coversation is too much for you to comprehend. Flame fail.
I fully understand your post, its you who isn't realizing that no one agrees with you about it.

Wasnt it the 2 female klingons, lursa and b'etor(sp?) in generations using an outdated 20 yr older BoP to almost destroy the enterprise solo? In fact, its because of there damage to enterprise that it crashed.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
03-30-2010, 09:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alecto View Post
If you want players to take any of your suggestions seriously 0xygenthief, you need to make sure your suggestions are as clear as possible, and respond with respect, even if you believe your thread has been flamed, or even if someone simply responds with something you don't like.

You obviously have a very creative imagination, and there are plenty of ways to go about putting it to good use, responding to replies as you are will only anger people.

Regards,

Alecto
Yeah, I have already made consessions on the points of confusion to my original post. As for responding to replies the way I do... Well, lets just say I get "angry" myself when people post flame bait like "I guess he is just doing it wrong". At what point does this comment become constructive. Was there anything in this thread that denoted that I was "doing" anything? I was making a suggestion for possible gameplay enhancements. Not trying to NERF KLINGONS IN ANY WAY. Strangely enough I have said this multiple times. The one consistency in this thread is the fact that eveyrone seems to stop reading the thread past the first post. Then I have to constantly repeat myself or make edits to the original post, as I did, just so I can keep the thread on track!

So yeah, if people don't want to read and feel perfectly fine just posting garbage in a thread designed to potentially improve the game then they should be replied to in the manner in which I have. I don't give a rats ass if I anger them!

For a perfect example, see the post Shuyun has made below...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shuyun
I fully understand your post, its you who isn't realizing that no one agrees with you about it.

Wasnt it the 2 female klingons, lursa and b'etor(sp?) in generations using an outdated 20 yr older BoP to almost destroy the enterprise solo? In fact, its because of there damage to enterprise that it crashed.
You fully understand my "first" post.... maybe. But you didn't take the time to read the rest of the thread did you Shuyun? If you did you would have noticed that at the end of page 2 I basically conceeded that this was probably not a good idea since no one seemed agree with me. So thanks for making me repeat myself.

Also your arguement about the BoP and the Enterprise that crashed was also discussed in this thread. So again, thank you for contributing so much...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
03-30-2010, 12:49 PM
People understand. They just don't want changes that don't need to be made. Especially ones that weaken.
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