Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
Like many, I like to use a range of skills, but my attacks focus mainly on 2 or 3. In my case, HY, Beam Overload, and sometimes Fire at Will. When I promote my BOs, however, it's very difficult to do the obvious--go from Beam Overload II to III, for example. I often have to give up another power I already have and want. As a result, promotion means turning my tactics and powers upside down--very annoying when I've invested skill points in a skill that I now can't have until my next rank, if ever.

This makes no sense. Essentially, in battle, my commander replaces an ensign who just got killed, let's say. But the computer says, "sorry, you can't fire Beam Overload I, even though you used to have it and now have Beam Overload III. Have a nice day." It just doesn't make sense--stations don't have rank, on Earth or in space. Officers have rank and the skills should follow them. At a minimum, of the powers I must lose in order to simply go from HY I to HY II, for example, the next rank up from a power I have should be an option. New powers should be based on an officer's rank, not some odd notion that a chair and a computer on a bridge don't work any more because you got promoted.

I'm now at the point where I avoid promoting BOs because of the chaos it brings to my powers and preferred tactics. For all that is holy, developers, please address this. Easily going from Power X I to Power X II should be really simple. If my BO knows I, II should not be hard. We've embraced the notion of aliens with lobsters growing out of their skulls, but a commander not being able to fire a torpedo anymore without reprogramming the ship is just too radical? The power tree was poorly explained, but actually makes some sense when you figure it out. The training/power replacement system, however, is complicated and gets in the way of one goal of the game--allowing players to adjust their powers to their play style.

Please consider changing this. I'm not the only one who is driven mad by this illogical system.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
03-29-2010, 04:38 PM
While logically it doesn't make sense, it makes sense from a balance point of view.

One Tac officer could have: HYTIII, BO III, C:RF III, and AP:BIII
One Sci officer could have: Sci Team III, Scramble Sensors III, Viral Matrix III, and Tyken's Rift III
One Eng officer could have: Eng Team III, RSP III, Aceton Field III, and EPtX III.

It would throw all balance out of the window.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
03-29-2010, 11:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvs5191 View Post
While logically it doesn't make sense, it makes sense from a balance point of view.
The OP wasnt asking to have rank 3 in everything - what they want (which seems sensible) is the option whenever a BO is promoted, to allow extra BO skill points to be spent to upgrade the existing skill to the next available slot - instead of being left with rank 1 of a skill they may have been useful at Lt level, but will be useless by the time they hit admiral.

E.g. Assuming my character is a Lt Commander and my Sci officer has Science Team I, and that I then get promoted to Commander. I spend merits to promote my Science Officer to Lt (giving him two skill slots). If Science team I was already trained to max rank (9 points) I have spent 450 skill points on him.

What would be really nice is the option to 'upgrade' my existing BO skill to the next rank, transfering the 450 SP already spent as ranks of the new skill (which also cost more per rank). Science team 2 costs 100 skill points per level to train. If I was allowed to transfer my existing tier 1 skill to the tier 2 slot (leaving a blank space in tier 1) then my 450 points would buy rank 4 of science team 2.

This makes sense from a training perspective - your BOs could continue to specialise their training each succesive rank - rather than the current system where they essentially are starting completely from scratch at each new rank, forgetting any relevant training they received in the past.

The current game very heavily penalises swapping specs by forcing you to throw away hard earned SP if you want to replace low rank skills. Allowing players to transfer their SP to higher ranks of the same skill (but only at the point the BO is promoted) seems a relatively minor change that will help avoid players wasting skill points, and the extra time needed to farm them in tiers 2 and 3.

From tier 4 onwards skill points come quickly enough that you can fully train a tier 1 or tier 2 skill with a handful of missions.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
03-31-2010, 05:14 AM
Quote:
The current game very heavily penalises swapping specs by forcing you to throw away hard earned SP if you want to replace low rank skills. Allowing players to transfer their SP to higher ranks of the same skill (but only at the point the BO is promoted) seems a relatively minor change that will help avoid players wasting skill points, and the extra time needed to farm them in tiers 2 and 3.
Thing is, not only do you get more BO skill points than you'll ever be able to use even if you sqap all of your BO's skills daily, but you *never stop earning them*. You literally have infinite points to play with. "Wasting" skillpoints on BOs is a nonexistant concept.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5 I couldn't agree more...
03-31-2010, 06:20 AM
Hi,

ValleyForge has an excellent point.

I understand the skill cap in place for RA5. I understand the purpose, that being to bring more people into the game without it spiralling out of control making the universe a non-enjoyable environment for new players.

However, given that whilst I am Tactical Commander now, through normal play I have about 6-8 BOFFS waiting to be commisioned, four in use and three or so empty BOFF slots on the side. As I have started to become familiar with how the mechanics work it is already horribly apparent that there is simply no incentive to develop or promote your BOFFS as the ship you will end up with as a RA will not be able to utilise them to even 50% (let's say) potential.

This is a rediculous notion.

How can it be possible for me to start the game as an Ensign and work my way through the ranks of Starfleet completeing hundreds of missions with the SAME BOFSS and find that I can still only assign "Ensign" and perhaps "Lt." Science Officers on a Ship that carries 1000 people? (I am have not based that last statement on actual specs so please don't flame me for it, the point still stands)

It is NOT realistic to castrate your BOFFS that have worked with you on every mission and have been promoted by YOURSELF and trained by YOURSELF and awarded skill points by YOURSELF only to have Starfleet neuter said officer due to the (RA Starship for example) being only able to cope with an Ensign/Lt station and therefore the appropriate powers for level 1/2 powers?

Let's look at two examples of Star Trek history:

Star Trek: The Next Generation - Season 1 Episode 1 - Encounter at Farpoint
U.S.S. Enterprise-D - Galaxy Class Starship
Commanding Officer - Captain Jean-Luc Picard
First Officer - Commander William T Riker
Counsellor - Commander Deanna Troi
Chief Medical Officer - Doctor Beverly Crusher (Chief of Medical Staff)
Operations - Lt Commander Data
Conn - Lt Geordi LaForge
Security - Lt Commander Tasha Yarr
Reception/Security - Lt Worf
Engineering - A Lt. Commander at least? (I can't remember)
And of course Wesley Crusher....

Now let's fast forward to Star Trek: First Contact:

U.S.S. Enterprise-E - Sovereign Class Starship
Commanding Officer - Captain Jean-Luc Picard
First Officer - Commander William T Riker
Counsellor - Commander Deanna Troi
Chief Medical Officer - Doctor Beverly Crusher (Chief of Medical Staff)
Operations - Lt Commander Data
Conn - Lt Commander Geordi LaForge
Security - Commander Worf
Helmsman - Lt Sean Hawk

So even though Captain Picard is not an Admiral/Rear Admiral he commands at least four Commander level officers. In that vein, surely a Rear Admiral in STO should be capable of the same thing in a Tier 5 ship?

I realise I am playing devils advocate here, but I also believe that I am speaking common sense.

What is the point of being an officer in Starfleet if you can't be a Lt Commander in Science on the bridge of a Consitution class.... oh wait. So why can you only have an ENSIGN or a LT. of Science on a Star Cruiser?

I think I've made my point here. As time passes and people start to realise how futile their efforts were in creating kick-ass BOFFS so you will see a mssive spike in "redundancies" in the STO world, where un-employment should have been a thing of the past highly skilled BOFFS will be traded for almost no value on the various Exchanges.

My God Bones what have I done?

Thanking you in advance.

Jim
Commander of the U.S.S. Incandescent
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
03-31-2010, 06:54 AM
Dr. Crusher isn't 'only' a doctor, she also has a command rank, at least Lt. Commander I think. There were very few exceptions of bridge officers below that rank; Ensign Kim on Voyager and later Ensign Nog on the Defiant.

It annoys me too how the skills currently 'upgrade'. Its no real upgrading, since I usually have to drop a skill to really upgrade another from I to II. Going from I to II on the same station seems more logical.

As a general idea, I'd like to see a BO get access to truly better skills at higher ranks (won't happen, I know) or make it a unlock-by-rank system:

My sci vessel has only 1 ensign tac station, occupied by Ensign BO, using Beam Overload I.
I get a promotion, and can promote the BO to Lt. Commander. Having all possible points on Beam Overload I now allows me to level up another 9 stages and make it Beam Overload II.

No instant "bam, your BO got promoted, its Beam Overload II now", but give the option to upgrade it.

Its not unbalanced to me, because that would apply to every ship, BO, console, player. What's the big difference in balance between a maxed out ship with the current system and a maxed out ship with the suggested system? None. Its still mostly a matter of what to spend points on first - unlock next rank of Ensign skill or invest in Lt. Commander skill. It just gives some more options when planning out a character and probably helps to decide what kind of ship to fly.
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