Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 The Premade vs. PUG problem
04-07-2010, 03:46 PM
I am going to relate this in a way most can understand.

Every night a group of 10 guys stands around a public park and get together to just play some football. Maybe they get another 10, maybe they just make a couple of groups of 5. Either way, they just get together every night and play a game and have a good time.

Eventually, a professional football team hears of the nightly game and decides that they want to jump in. So the professional football team comes in one night, having training and knowing each others strengths. Well, the group of guys just wanting to have fun are not only beaten.. they are destroyed.

The professional football team then decides that it is time to start yelling "L2P" and "this is where you went wrong.. blah blah blah" when you were just an average guy with a random team..TRYING to have fun.

Well, as time goes on, the professional team starts to show up every night. And as time goes by the guys who used to hang out at that park have either quit coming or have moved on to another park, in hopes that they can have fun again.

The professional football team gets upset that the people are not there any more and decides that it is the other guy's fault for not "learning to play" and just leaving. They then pat themselves on the back for "pwning the nubs" as they wait weeks for a potential game again, until they hear about a NEW park..and go repeat this story again.



This is basically what premades are doing to STO.. and any other darn game they find.

Make a queue for random players only and get the premades out of the way of the guys who just want to play the darn game.

Give them a queue, a ladder.. or whatever feeds their E-peens and let the rest of us have fun.

Or sit around in your empty park slapping each other on the back, congratulating yourselves on how you now rule this empty place.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
04-07-2010, 03:52 PM
a 5 man premade team that joins together, will normally be teamed against another 5 man team in my experience anyway.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
04-07-2010, 03:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dekkameron View Post
a 5 man premade team that joins together, will normally be teamed against another 5 man team in my experience anyway.
not in mine.

Also, I guess you didn't read the post, because what you stated here.. has little do to with what I wrote.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
04-07-2010, 04:17 PM
Welcome to Star Solo Online? Are you seriously complaining that players in a massively multiplayer online game - who can only PvP with a minimum of 4 other players as a game mechanic - are organizing themselves in a space game with the word FLEET in it?

Yes that type of organizes group activity is clearly bad for the game...

Or not.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
04-07-2010, 04:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darksided View Post
Welcome to Star Solo Online? Are you seriously complaining that players in a massively multiplayer online game - who can only PvP with a minimum of 4 other players as a game mechanic - are organizing themselves in a space game with the word FLEET in it?

Yes that type of organizes group activity is clearly bad for the game...

Or not.
Are you unable to read and comprehend what I wrote?

Because your response would indicate that you missed the meaning of every single word and then decided to extrapolate your own secret meaning to create your counter-argument... if you can call it that.

Where did I say "solo"?

Nowhere.

Guild Wars has PUG and Premade Queues. Not hard to do.

Read it again.. think about it. THEN post.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
04-07-2010, 04:34 PM
If you are interested in separating premade queues from PUG queues, then check out my proposal for participation-based ratings and separate queues for teams and individuals. If it looks reasonable, sign your support. If it does not look reasonable, post in it to say why it does not. All feedback is welcome.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
04-07-2010, 04:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt_Dravis
If you are interested in separating premade queues from PUG queues, then check out my proposal for participation-based ratings and separate queues for teams and individuals. If it looks reasonable, sign your support. If it does not look reasonable, post in it to say why it does not. All feedback is welcome.
Thanks :-) I will.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
04-07-2010, 04:48 PM
okay, what about pug vs pug where 1 side stil gets destroyed like one side was a premade?

i have been in many pug groups that organized very very well, we have even destroyed some of your so called premade fleet groups.

i presume you play fed in pvp mostly based upon what you are saying. (i will freely admit this is a pure speculation on my part). sad thing is klingons tend to be much better in pvp and can pug more effectively then the feds because at least 3/4 of their leveling (before the season 1 patch it was almost all pvp based) is pvp. not only agains fed player, but also against other, more skilled klingons.

klingon pugs work together as a team far better than fed pugs.

lord help the feds if there were as many klingons as feds...


\\\discliaimer - i have a radm5 fed and regularly pvp vs both fed and klink
i have a commander klingon and regularly pvp vs both fed and klink
above statement based upon observations made while pvpin and from my friends that pvp
and other pvp threads on these forums.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
04-07-2010, 05:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribblerancher View Post
okay, what about pug vs pug where 1 side stil gets destroyed like one side was a premade?
Well, my proposed participation-based ratings system will improve matchmaking, so people of approximately equivalent 'skill' (in the form of participation, which is defined according to metric output of all abilities used) will be matched against each other.

The goal is to provide a more 'balanced' -- or normalised -- win:loss ratio for all players. So everyone will not only be matched with and against equivalent players, but they will also be assured more of a challenge.

Check out the thread I linked above. It is also in my signature.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
04-07-2010, 05:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaruslothran View Post
Are you unable to read and comprehend what I wrote?
I gave your analogy the dignity it earned. It makes no sense, and doesn't apply. I am trying to give you the benefit of the doubt here, and believe you weren't trying to legitimately suggest that the average joe football team should be able to beat the professional team... right?

In your analogy you compare a professional football team with organized player groups in STO, and the average joe football team to PUGs in STO. Big problem - it doesn't apply at all to STO. No one can join a professional football team, average people can't simply sign up for the New York Giants. BUT ANYONE in STO can join an organized fleet and become a contributing member of an organized PvP team.

Your problem is you want to be successful in PvP, but PvP in STO requires a team (you cannot even enter a PvP match without a minimum of 5 players on your TEAM). That word "team" is apparently too high of a benchmark for you, and the result is you want Cryptic to fix that problem for you with code?

So I read your post and I asked myself - is this guy just being too lazy to organize himself for the competition of PvP in STO?

The answer I concluded was - YEP!

There are numerous options that any player can take action on when in your situation, and the one you decided to act upon was to complain that in a massive multiplayer online game where PvP is group centric, the people who organize are the problem. Your analysis completely ignores how PUG teams lose, and how that in and of itself may suggest the individual PUGs are each individually the problem.

Nope, you didn't do that, because to do so would be to reflect the possibility that you are somehow not doing something right, that in a perfect world disorganized and unplanned individuals will be able to come together and quickly compete against high level competition...

To reflect on any possible solution other than the merits and tranquility of chaotic team play, you would had to reflect that somehow what you were doing was probably not optimal. Surely not a perfect soul such as yourself...

And after considerable effort at the keyboard, you took the high road of telling every one who works to be part of a team how they are the problem...

Are you feeling me yet? Is the sarcasm hitting home? Who is missing whose point?

Maybe instead of saying people who organize are the problem, you should try joining a better fleet that is more active and inline with your playstyle? Who knows, maybe you'll have fun when you get to know all those thousands of people out there in the galaxy, and you may learn to stop losing to those you call "professional" - who are really nothing more than people who work together.
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