Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 31
04-07-2010, 07:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ipigi
Only thing I noticed is how rapidly resort to personal insults when your point of view is threatened. What do you know of my education level or my lineage?

You made your point of view clear from the start, in both this thread and in the name the player thread. You think premade groups are a plague that ruin the game for everyone.
Wrong again. Read previous post. You are not good at this.

I am extrapolating your educational level because your reading comprehension is miserable.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 32
04-07-2010, 07:53 PM
Personally, I enjoy running into Premades.

I also relish running into 5 guys when I am alone.

Why? Because it forces me to step the play up.

I want the fight. Much more than win or loss.

This thread makes it seem like the OP is running into premades all the time. I count myself LUCKY if I run into more than one a night.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 33
04-07-2010, 07:53 PM
Premades = challenge
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 34
04-07-2010, 07:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaruslothran View Post
I am going to relate this in a way most can understand.

Every night a group of 10 guys stands around a public park and get together to just play some football. Maybe they get another 10, maybe they just make a couple of groups of 5. Either way, they just get together every night and play a game and have a good time.

Eventually, a professional football team hears of the nightly game and decides that they want to jump in. So the professional football team comes in one night, having training and knowing each others strengths. Well, the group of guys just wanting to have fun are not only beaten.. they are destroyed.

The professional football team then decides that it is time to start yelling "L2P" and "this is where you went wrong.. blah blah blah" when you were just an average guy with a random team..TRYING to have fun.

Well, as time goes on, the professional team starts to show up every night. And as time goes by the guys who used to hang out at that park have either quit coming or have moved on to another park, in hopes that they can have fun again.

The professional football team gets upset that the people are not there any more and decides that it is the other guy's fault for not "learning to play" and just leaving. They then pat themselves on the back for "pwning the nubs" as they wait weeks for a potential game again, until they hear about a NEW park..and go repeat this story again.



This is basically what premades are doing to STO.. and any other darn game they find.

Make a queue for random players only and get the premades out of the way of the guys who just want to play the darn game.

Give them a queue, a ladder.. or whatever feeds their E-peens and let the rest of us have fun.

Or sit around in your empty park slapping each other on the back, congratulating yourselves on how you now rule this empty place.

The pro players in your example started as the guys in the park. They pushed a little harder, corrected their errors, brushed off their defeats, and learned a little more.

Perhaps, there is something you could learn from that yourself. There is the chance that you could be far better at this than you give yourself credit for. It's possible those you team with could do the same.

Even from a purely fan perspective, the characters of the franchise were thrust into a variety of bad situations. They grew, they adapted, they learned their ships, and crews like the back of their hand. Players doing so would eventually get better.

Khan never gave Kirk a time out, nor did the Borg do so for Picard. I honestly think the player base can adapt to these kinds of things just like they do in every other game.


***Last note: the team of five casual friends can meet another team of five casual friends and create a match. It can be done completely on YOUR terms and can be limited to YOUR friends only.

You get all the same rewards as you would from a standard match. It's a cool tool very few people use.***

Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 35
04-07-2010, 07:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chanys
Personally, I enjoy running into Premades.

I also relish running into 5 guys when I am alone.

Why? Because it forces me to step the play up.

I want the fight. Much more than win or loss.

This thread makes it seem like the OP is running into premades all the time. I count myself LUCKY if I run into more than one a night.
I seem to have that bad luck. Only when I am doing the "kill 15" maps though. Most of the time in capture and hold it is safe to play.

Would like to see Enemy Mine used more though... because it is a good map that almost nobody plays
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 36
04-07-2010, 07:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kashnar
I think his point is, their should be different ques for pugs and premades. 99% of pugs just don't compare to premades so there should be 2 different types of pvp. Like in WoW where you have regular battlegrounds for the average people and arena's for the organized premade players.

He's actually for what you and I want Ipigi, you just are reading something different from his post.
Hey, I'm all for having premade queues. What my grief is with him is that he implied premade groups ruin PvP. When I told him everybody can run a premade (even in a casual matter) he accused me of missing the point, of being pathetic and questioning my education and my ancestors.

I think I'm a little past seeing his point of view.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 37
04-07-2010, 07:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laylyn View Post
The pro players in your example started as the guys in the park. They pushed a little harder, corrected their errors, brushed off their defeats, and learned a little more.

Perhaps, there is something you could learn from that yourself. There is the chance that you could be far better at this than you give yourself credit for. It's possible those you team with could do the same.

Even from a purely fan perspective, the characters of the franchise were thrust into a variety of bad situations. They grew, they adapted, they learned their ships, and crews like the back of their hand. Players doing so would eventually get better.

Khan never gave Kirk a time out, nor did the Borg do so for Picard. I honestly think the player base can adapt to these kinds of things just like they do in every other game.


***Last note: the team of five casual friends can meet another team of five casual friends and create a match. It can be done completely on YOUR terms and can be limited to YOUR friends only.

You get all the same rewards as you would from a standard match. It's a cool tool very few people use.***

I understand what you are saying. Don't agree with all of it, but you have some good points.

I am talking about options. There are good pug players too. A challenge is one thing, but almost no pug can beat a coordinated premade on voice chat. That is why the separation has to be made.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 38
04-07-2010, 08:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaruslothran View Post
I understand what you are saying. Don't agree with all of it, but you have some good points.

I am talking about options. There are good pug players too. A challenge is one thing, but almost no pug can beat a coordinated premade on voice chat. That is why the separation has to be made.

What you want doesn't even work in WOW with a player base of 11.5 million. All the arena fixes never fixed that.

I'm really doubting your idea would do much more than make longer ques and more frustrated players, regardless of play style. IMO, it would be like the RA5 Fed ques pre season one, at absolute best case. That really would kill the game.

Making exactly what you want is easier. The tool exists now and just requires social networking.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 39
04-07-2010, 08:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ipigi
Hey, I'm all for having premade queues. What my grief is with him is that he implied premade groups ruin PvP. When I told him everybody can run a premade (even in a casual matter) he accused me of missing the point, of being pathetic and questioning my education and my ancestors.

I think I'm a little past seeing his point of view.
Your base assumption is still wrong.

I am saying that the average player will get frustrated from constantly being bashed into the earth by a group of people who are coordinated on voice and play together constantly. It used to not bother me so much, but now with Season 1:"Revenge of the Burst Damage" it has become instant death. So eventually they stop queuing for the battles. How can a premade even find it FUN to instant kill an entire team?

Tell me, is THAT challenging... is THAT fun?

So you HAVE missed the point.

You have and are still missing it.

People have gotten my point CLEARLY, then posted about it .... and you still are not getting it, it seems.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 40
04-07-2010, 08:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laylyn View Post
What you want doesn't even work in WOW with a player base of 11.5 million. All the arena fixes never fixed that.

I'm really doubting your idea would do much more than make longer ques and more frustrated players, regardless of play style. IMO, it would be like the RA5 Fed ques pre season one, at absolute best case. That really would kill the game.

Making exactly what you want is easier. The tool exists now and just requires social networking.
If they would just have game TYPES and have the game choose the map.

Not each map and sizes...how about this..

Ground .............................. Premade
Space Objective.................. Premade
Space Brawl....................... Premade

Ground .............................. Pug
Space Objective.................. Pug
Space Brawl....................... Pug

On each side that is FvF FvK for example.. 12 total selections.. game chooses the map

How is that any longer than what we have now?

I can now queue for all 3 types at the same time.. for pug or premade. This actually helps the queue
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